Are we to repent for our ancestors past sins?

[Aquila]

Yep, it's way above the heads of some.

Oh well.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yep, it's way above the heads of some.

Oh well.

No. You’re just wrong.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yep, it's way above the heads of some.

Oh well.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by berkeley

No. You’re just wrong.

So... you're telling me that if a believer is raised in a family that had deeply held racist views... they shouldn't seek to not only repent of their own racism (if such views were held), but they shouldn't seek to redeem the family name and reputation? They shouldn't perhaps, make restitution or apology if their family caused considerable emotional harm or duress to a neighboring minority family?

Imagine if one's grandfather was a part of a group of guys who burned a cross in a black family's front yard, verbally taunting and making threats decades ago. And that black family took such offense because of the sheer fear of being violently harmed at that time, so much offense in fact that two generations have that black family have a significant degree of disgust and indignation for that man's family.

Now, imagine that man born again. Imagine him taking a drive across town to where his grandfather used to live. Imagine him walking up the steps, tears streaming down his face. An old black man sits in a rocking chair wondering, "What in the world is this white man with a Bible crying about?" The man says, "Sir, I know you don't know me. But, I was born again last week. And something has haunted me. Years ago, my grandfather did something terrible to your family." The old man's eyes widen, as he remembers the event. While the young man pours his heart out about what his grandfather did, an old woman walks outside, handkerchief over her mouth, listening. The young man continues, "I just want to say, I'm sorry for what my grandfather, his brothers, and friends did to your family all those years ago. You didn't deserve that. And, I just want to make this right before God." The old man stares with teary eyes and says, "Son, what on earth would make you come here to apologize to us?" And the young man says, "My Jesus. He wants me to set a new path for my family. And that path isn't going to be a path of hate." The older black man looks puzzled, "What church do you go to?" With that, the woman says, "Gerald, let's invite the young man and in have some coffee."... and... a witness of the effort to right wrongs and show Christian love moves that family to maybe visit this young man's Apostolic church.

If the pain and hurt from an ancestor's sin remains... we can't just wash our hands of it and say, "Well, wasn't my fault." Such crass, emotionless, selfishness is not the way of faith. If pain remains... there is room for apology, repentance (turning from the ancestors sin and CONDEMNING it), and perhaps in some cases, restitution.

You can't love your neighbor, and say you could care less about the hurt he or she carries because of an ancestor's abuse. That just ain't Christian.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by berkeley

No. You’re just wrong.

So... your telling me that if a believer is raised in a family that had deeply held racist views... they should only seek to repent of their own racism (if such views were held), and not seek to redeem the family name and reputation? They shouldn't perhaps, make restitution or apology if their family caused considerable emotional harm or duress to a neighboring minority family?

Imagine if one's grandfather was a part of a group of guys who burned a cross in a black family's front yard, verbally taunting and making threats decades ago. And that black family took such offense because of the sheer fear of being violently harmed at that time, so much offense in fact that two generations have that black family have a significant degree of disgust and indignation for that man's family. And in a way, a type of feud existed that extended into other acts of sin back and forth.

Now, imagine a young man from this family being born again. Imagine him taking a drive across town to where his grandfather used to live. Imagine him walking up the steps, tears streaming down his face. An old black man sits in a rocking chair wondering, "What in the world is this white man with a Bible crying about?" The man says, "Sir, I know you don't know me. But, I was born again last week. And something has haunted me. Years ago, my grandfather did something terrible to your family." The old man's eyes widen, as he remembers the event. While the young man pours his heart out about what his grandfather did, an old woman walks outside, handkerchief over her mouth, listening. The young man continues, "I just want to say, I'm sorry for what my grandfather, his brothers, and friends did to your family all those years ago. You didn't deserve that. And, I just want to make this right before God." The old man stares with teary eyes and says, "Son, what on earth would make you come here to apologize to us?" And the young man says, "My Jesus. He wants me to set a new path for my family. And that path isn't going to be a path of hate. It stops right here, right now." The older black man looks puzzled, "What church do you go to?" With that, the woman says, "Gerald, let's invite the young man and in have some coffee."... and... a witness is born of the effort to right wrongs, and show Christian love. And as a result, this family is moved to visit this young man's Apostolic church.

If the pain and hurt from an ancestor's sin remains... we can't just wash our hands of it and say, "Well, wasn't my fault." Such crass, emotionless, selfishness is not the way of Scripture. If pain remains... there is room for apology, repentance (turning from the ancestors sin and CONDEMNING it), and perhaps in some cases, restitution.

You can't love your neighbor, and say you could care less about the hurt he or she carries because of an ancestor's abuse. That just ain't Christian.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Aquila

So... your telling me that if a believer is raised in a family that had deeply held racist views... they should only seek to repent of their own racism (if such views were held), and not seek to redeem the family name and reputation?

It's called walking away and living a different life, like Ferd stated. It is that simple. I am not responsible for what my father did in his past. I don't live like he did because I have dedicated my life to God alone.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

It's called walking away and living a different life, like Ferd stated. It is that simple. I am not responsible for what my father did in his past. I don't live like he did because I have dedicated my life to God alone.

Yep

[Aquila]

Every one is an island... there is no concept of responsibility beyond one's own nose.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

So... your telling me that if a believer is raised in a family that had deeply held racist views... they should only seek to repent of their own racism (if such views were held), and not seek to redeem the family name and reputation? They shouldn't perhaps, make restitution or apology if their family caused considerable emotional harm or duress to a neighboring minority family?

Sure, you could sob, spit and slobber. You could tear your clothes, pour ashes over your head, carrying a large sign and wail at the busiest intersection.

Does absolutely nothing to absolve the deceased ancestors of their sin. Nothing.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Imagine if one's grandfather was a part of a group of guys who burned a cross in a black family's front yard, verbally taunting and making threats decades ago. And that black family took such offense because of the sheer fear of being violently harmed at that time, so much offense in fact that two generations have that black family have a significant degree of disgust and indignation for that man's family. And in a way, a type of feud existed that extended into other acts of sin back and forth.

Now, imagine a young man from this family being born again. Imagine him taking a drive across town to where his grandfather used to live. Imagine him walking up the steps, tears streaming down his face. An old black man sits in a rocking chair wondering, "What in the world is this white man with a Bible crying about?" The man says, "Sir, I know you don't know me. But, I was born again last week. And something has haunted me. Years ago, my grandfather did something terrible to your family." The old man's eyes widen, as he remembers the event. While the young man pours his heart out about what his grandfather did, an old woman walks outside, handkerchief over her mouth, listening. The young man continues, "I just want to say, I'm sorry for what my grandfather, his brothers, and friends did to your family all those years ago. You didn't deserve that. And, I just want to make this right before God." The old man stares with teary eyes and says, "Son, what on earth would make you come here to apologize to us?" And the young man says, "My Jesus. He wants me to set a new path for my family. And that path isn't going to be a path of hate. It stops right here, right now." The older black man looks puzzled, "What church do you go to?" With that, the woman says, "Gerald, let's invite the young man and in have some coffee."... and... a witness is born of the effort to right wrongs, and show Christian love. And as a result, this family is moved to visit this young man's Apostolic church.

Here's what's ironic about this: You post these "let's imagine" stories a lot, always trying to use emotion to somehow prove your opinion is the right one. Yet you constantly bash preachers who dare shed a tear when closing their sermon and calling for people to repent. You call them fake. You mock their emotion.

But you're doing the same thing with these stories! Your Hallmark story above doesn't change the fact that repenting for dead ancestors changes nothing for them. It doesn't absolve them of any sin.

Originally Posted by Aquila

If the pain and hurt from an ancestor's sin remains... we can't just wash our hands of it and say, "Well, wasn't my fault." Such crass, emotionless, selfishness is not the way of faith. If pain remains... there is room for apology, repentance (turning from the ancestors sin and CONDEMNING it), and perhaps in some cases, restitution.

You can't love your neighbor, and say you could care less about the hurt he or she carries because of an ancestor's abuse. That just ain't Christian.

I'm not saying one couldn't or even shouldn't apologize for any wrongs previously done. Of course, when does that end? But let's be honest, if you're that person who feels the weight of a million worlds on them for some perceived wrong their ancestor did, more than likely the main reason you're going to apologize is so YOU can feel better.

Again, there is no spiritual benefit or instruction to repenting for dead ancestors. It's about as useful as praying that God would allow a dead sinner into Heaven. (You supported that for a moment, too)

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Every one is an island... there is no concept of responsibility beyond one's own nose.

Aquila -- "let's imagine" your great, great grandfather was a merciless pirate who raped and pillaged up and down the West Indies.

Why are you responsible for what that scourge of the seven seas did?