Are we to repent for our ancestors past sins?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Aquila -- "let's imagine" your great, great grandfather was a merciless pirate who raped and pillaged up and down the West Indies.

Why are you responsible for what that scourge of the seven seas did?

What? That's not what's being said.

We're talking about the sins of the fathers that have been perpetuated down through generations. Taking it to God as high priests of our family lines and repenting of it, because it offended God. And in the Scriptures, God repeatedly visits the sins of the fathers on the current generation. And so, we bring it to Him, confess it and repent of it, ending any perpetuated action that remains on account of ancestral influences. Redeeming the family name, and setting any outstanding wrongs right.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

What? That's not what's being said.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Imagine if one's grandfather was a part of a group of guys who burned a cross in a black family's front yard, verbally taunting and making threats decades ago.

Originally Posted by n david

Aquila -- "let's imagine" your great, great grandfather was a merciless pirate who raped and pillaged up and down the West Indies.

You were saying?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Every one is an island... there is no concept of responsibility beyond one's own nose.

If you feel embarrassed by your ancestors, apologize to whomever was offended.

However, the Word of God says, "For we must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ; that every ONE may receive the things done in HIS body, according to that HE has done, whether it be good or bad." II Corinthians 5:10

No one gets to push me forward to answer for them. I don't get to hide behind anyone to answer for me. I stand alone before God at the end of the day.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

We're talking about the sins of the fathers that have been perpetuated down through generations. Taking it to God as high priests of our family lines and repenting of it, because it offended God. And in the Scriptures, God repeatedly visits the sins of the fathers on the current generation. And so, we bring it to Him, confess it and repent of it, ending any perpetuated action that remains on account of ancestral influences. Redeeming the family name, and setting any outstanding wrongs right.

Aquila, if you wish to research your lineage and put on sackcloth and ashes and wail and repent over what some ancestor a hundred years ago did, be my guest. It will do nothing more than make you feel better. It will not change or absolve the dead of their sins.

If I had a 4th cousin who was a bank robber and outlaw and he terrorized people and towns across hundreds of miles for years, my wailing prayer of repentance would be of none effect. It would profit me very little, other than making myself feel better.

Once I repented of my sins and was buried in the water in Jesus Name, any generation curse or ancestral curse was cut off and no longer controls me.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

If you feel embarrassed by your ancestors, apologize to whomever was offended.

However, the Word of God says, "For we must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ; that every ONE may receive the things done in HIS body, according to that HE has done, whether it be good or bad." II Corinthians 5:10

No one gets to push me forward to answer for them. I don't get to hide behind anyone to answer for me. I stand alone before God at the end of the day.

[Aquila]

I'm in complete agreement with much of what you guys are saying. However, what I'm talking about isn't necessarily what you're talking about.

I'm not talking about being embarrassed over any ancestors. However, I do believe there are situations wherein we should be disgusted or even repulsed by the actions of our ancestors. For example, if one's ancestors were Nazis, confirmed slave traders and slave owners, etc. We shouldn't white wash or romanticize these things. They should be denounced and held as being abhorrent.

I'm not talking about being judged in the judgement over another's sins, or being able to somehow earn forgiveness for our ancestors.

I'm not talking about sackcloth and ashes over a single ancestor's shooting spree or robbery.

I'm talking about being judged for not trying to right wrongs, mend generational wounds, and moving forward with amends, and a clean break from sins perpetuated in families when possible.

For example, the Pope's formal acknowledgment of the atrocities and persecutions committed by the Roman Catholic Church during the Inquisitions. German acknowledgement of the atrocities of the Holocaust. United States official apologies to native peoples acknowledging various atrocities committed against their people.

When I was a younger man, I considered taking a missions trip to Vietnam. You see, my dad served in Vietnam on a Howitzer 155, leveling entire villages, and he didn't just kill military targets. Something in me wanted to bring the Word if life to the Vietnamese people, on account of my father's bringing of death. Vets often get it. One very moving film I saw years back had soldiers from both sides of the Pacific front in WWII meeting and weeping together. A repentant heart can mend pain that might be carried for generations.

Sometimes there's nothing we can do but offer acknowledgement and apology. But we should be open to making restitution or reparation when and where possible.

[Aquila]

Many believe that God will judge nations. Many say that God will judge America for abortion and gay marriage. If that is true, why would God not judge America for one of the most brutal and inhumane system of slavery, genocide, unjustified wars, the slaughter of innocents, greed, corruption, usury, racism, oppression, and serial polygamy?

Most of these are sins are essentially the sins of other people and previous generations come to fruition, are they not?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Many believe that God will judge nations. Many say that God will judge America for abortion and gay marriage. If that is true, why would God not judge America for one of the most brutal and inhumane system of slavery, genocide, unjustified wars, the slaughter of innocents, greed, corruption, usury, racism, oppression, and serial polygamy?

Most of these are sins are essentially the sins of other people and previous generations come to fruition, are they not?

But the country no longer does those things.

2 Chronicles 7:14 is a prayer of national repentance for the people of Israel. Does God still keep you accountable for your past sins once you have repented? No, so same as any country who will modify their behavior and end slavery. We have no more slavery. Have you ever owned a slave? I haven't, don't know anyone who has. Do you know anyone who was a slave on a plantation? The answer is no. Therefore that is an issue which the people who died and went on to judgement need to deal with. Not you, and not me.
If your ancestor was a pirate would he have worn a kilt as he swung over to the ship he was attacking? Would you be held accountable for his lack of modesty?

[Aquila]

There is God's prerogative to consider. Biblically speaking, God appears to visit the sins of the fathers up until the third and fourth generations of those who hate Him. Yes, we break the cycle of repeated or perpetuated sin when we are saved, but given how the prophets approached God and spoke corporately, it appears that God desires that our repentance not only include repentance for personal sin, but the sins of those who came before us, because we were not only physically in their loins, but we are of their flesh and blood, we carry their DNA. This is why when Adam sinned, we all sinned, and continue to carry that condemnation until we are redeemed. We are living extensions of Adam, and our ancestors, in God's sight. We have to realize that on many occasions while there is little we can do in the natural to right any perpetuated wrongs committed by our ancestors for generations, it isn't just men that were sinned against, it was God. And God appears to desire that we bear responsibility for the sins of our forefathers, confess them, and repent by ending the perpetuation of the sin, thereby righting their wrongs.

For example, slavery. The institution of African slavery was extremely brutal. Brutal beyond God's own law concerning slaves. Slaves were not only herded together and sold like animals when they had done little to no wrong to us, but they were hung, burned alive, beaten, raped, and butchered. Even the children of slaves were not seen as completely human, and were raped and molested at times, with no legal recourse. The injustices and atrocities committed against the Native Americans are also beyond any justification or excuse. We even slaughtered them in the name of God, remember the doctrine of, Manifest Destiny? And as necessary as it might have been, in WWII we dropped the first atomic weapons on Nagasaki and Hiroshima, burning the shadows of children playing on playgrounds into the walls of their schools as they were burned to ashes in a blazing flash of atomic light. Civilian families, reduced to ash and debris. And the survivors, the survivors endured a virtual hell on earth until they died agonizing deaths. These were not military targets. And as necessary as it might have been, I cannot see God smiling on this, the genocide against the Native Americans, or slavery. To this day, people bare the scars, pain, loss of land, poverty, etc. because of these policies. Even after slaves were emancipated, it was illegal to teach them how to read or write in some states. They were not permitted to own property, or to vote, or to even have their marriages recognized. And who benefitted from such policies? Well, for many, it was their ancestors. Many inherited great wealth. And while some may not have inherited great wealth, they received property, opportunities, benefits, rights, and social status that were denied others... which... put many of us today in more positive positions to get to where we are.

Above, I posted big examples. But here was something very small that I encountered in Dayton, Ohio. There is a grass roots effort to get African American children enrolled in swimming lessons, for free. I found this puzzling. Why free swimming lessons for African American children? Because of my line of work, and my own curiosity about maybe enrolling my son for swim lessons, I was able to touch base with the staff of one public facility that was offering this program. I was told that the rates of drowning among African Americans was higher than average in our community and the surrounding areas. That puzzled me even more. Why? So, I asked some friends of mine who are African American. They looked at me like I was living under rock. It was explained to me that for generations they not only were not allowed to own property (which meant they didn't own pools, but they were also prohibited from swimming in most public pools. This apparently led to a greater number of African American people who had no opportunity to swim, and therefore, swimming wasn't a pastime that was on their radar. As a result, fewer of their children were introduced to swimming. The end result being a disproportionate number of African Americans (at least in this area of the country) who had little to no experience with swimming, and so the rate of drowning was naturally higher than average (at least in our region).

Now, to those of us who have never lived with generations being barred from public pools, such a thing might seem trivial and insignificant. I'll be honest, it seemed trivial to me at first. But to the families of those who drown, it can be devastating emotionally and financially. Why? Because of generations being denied access to pools and property. It's hard to wrap my mind around it, but when you sit and hear how grandparents, great and grandparents, etc. were turned away from public pools, local swimming holes, etc., and how so many abandoned the notion of swimming as a past time all together, you begin to see how something so seemingly insignificant is a significant factor in the higher than average drowning death rates among African Americans, again, at least in this area of the country. I imagine such rates are lower in coastal states with open beaches where everyone has been permitted to swim for generations.

The decision to right the wrong by offering free swimming lessons for African Americans living in Dayton, Ohio now makes sense. And as the number of drownings in the African American communities drop, lives are being saved. Something so small has made a big difference. And, I believe such a thing, though small, might make God smile.

Our fathers and the racism and institutionalized discrimination has taken a toll on minority communities in so many ways. Imagine a Native American Indian looking for work...and not being hired. As a result, he works odd jobs to get by and remains in deep poverty. Like most unregenerated souls, he turns to drinking to numb the emotional pain and fear of lack. Being poor and alcoholic, he doesn't have the money to support his kids going to college, and his kids are lucky if they graduate high school. In addition, his kids are more likely to start drinking earlier. Lacking financial resources, lacking education, and drinking like dad did, they end up in deep poverty... and the odds are... this will become the challenge of every generation afterwards in this family. All because of racial discrimination towards an ancestor. Yes, they own their choices. But we own our part in their situation too.

It's not about embarrassment, self loathing, or anything like that. It's about being able to actually see the damage, the ripple effect, of sin that can effect entire generations... and having a heart that is willing to right any wrongs if at all possible. I believe that this is why God sees generational sin as He does. Only a divine being who can see the future ramifications of such perpetuated, institutionalized, systemic, sin can justifiably visit the sins of one generation in the lives of subsequent generations. This testifies to God's omniscience and wisdom.

We do well to realize that when our ancestors sinned against others, they sinned against God. And the effects and pain of their sin often spans many generations. And so, God is justified in visiting such sin up to the third and fourth generations. And to keep from having God visit the sins of our fathers in our generation, we do well to acknowledge those sins and repent by making right as many wrongs as possible.

This is just a natural part of having a repentant heart.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

But the country no longer does those things.

2 Chronicles 7:14 is a prayer of national repentance for the people of Israel. Does God still keep you accountable for your past sins once you have repented? No, so same as any country who will modify their behavior and end slavery. We have no more slavery. Have you ever owned a slave? I haven't, don't know anyone who has. Do you know anyone who was a slave on a plantation? The answer is no. Therefore that is an issue which the people who died and went on to judgement need to deal with. Not you, and not me.
If your ancestor was a pirate would he have worn a kilt as he swung over to the ship he was attacking? Would you be held accountable for his lack of modesty?

LOL

I don't see it as being as simple as that. While slavery was abolished, many generations afterwards have suffered from prejudice, racism, discrimination, and systematic oppression that has left an impact on millions... even unto this very day. Thank God those effects are lessening with every generation. But the effects of many of those wrongs still remain.

Remember, God is a God of justice. And the effects of a single sinful injustice can span more than one generation, and touch millions of lives.

If there is any way to right the wrongs of our ancestors, our nation, or our churches, and we fail or refuse to right them... does not the responsibility for the sin and its effects on so many lives then become our own?