UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by n david

I'm good with conviction preaching. I don't like clothesline preaching. Preach true Biblical holiness and leave out the UPC dress code which varies depending on country and church.

If there was ever a day pastors should get up and preached outward holiness it’s today. Pastors have stoped preaching it and the world has just about completely erased the distinction little by little and now we have tons of confused kids growing up.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Antipas

LOL

What's "scoreboard" mean?

If you're winning a game, and the losing side is trash talking, you say scoreboard and that's the end because you're winning.

To hear my pastor tell it, he wants souls in the pews so he has a chance to preach the gospel to them. The other pastors seem content to preach to the same 20 people each week. So as they call him a compromiser, he says scoreboard. (He was quite an athlete before he received his calling, so he likes sports analogies even if he messes them up on a regular basis. He gets this one right, but this is certainly not always the case. Haha!)

Just so no one reads this and misconstrues it, my pastor does not think attendance numbers are the end all be all. But if the name of the game is preaching the gospel to as many people as possible and bringing them to repentance and baptizing them in Jesus name, then he is seeing better results than those calling him a compromiser.

[n david]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Come to LA area and tell me that facial hair has no roots in rebellion. We have gang members ( including some of my family ) and you can just about count them having mustache and goatees.

Isn't that just their "culture?"

Men in gangs have grown beards long before the 60s and 70s. So did the majority of men, for that matter.

"Roots" would mean Jesus and other Apostles and Christians all throughout the whole of history were in rebellion well before the 60s and 70s hippy era came about in America.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by n david

Isn't that just their "culture?"

Men in gangs have grown beards long before the 60s and 70s. So did the majority of men, for that matter.

"Roots" would mean Jesus and other Apostles and Christians all throughout the whole of history were in rebellion well before the 60s and 70s hippy era came about in America.

Obviously I’m not talking about roots from 200 years ago. A 18 year old kid gets his roots from other, usually older gang members. Obviously we know where the rainbow comes from but you walk outside decked in rainbow and see what kind of attention you attract.

[derAlte]

I suppose because I've been in smaller churches my whole life, I tend to lean toward Ehud's position on how to deal with issues. When there are just a few families, who all know each other very well (some of whom may be related), it is folly to humiliate people publicly. It is much better to privately take someone aside and gently explain things than to put people's mistakes on blast from the pulpit. Would you like your sins to be publically exposed before everyone?

I have no direct experience with this, but it seems it would be easier when the crowd is large to be more direct about issues without naming people's names.

[derAlte]

Originally Posted by Ehud

If you're winning a game, and the losing side is trash talking, you say scoreboard and that's the end because you're winning.

To hear my pastor tell it, he wants souls in the pews so he has a chance to preach the gospel to them. The other pastors seem content to preach to the same 20 people each week. So as they call him a compromiser, he says scoreboard. (He was quite an athlete before he received his calling, so he likes sports analogies even if he messes them up on a regular basis. He gets this one right, but this is certainly not always the case. Haha!)

Just so no one reads this and misconstrues it, my pastor does not think attendance numbers are the end all be all. But if the name of the game is preaching the gospel to as many people as possible and bringing them to repentance and baptizing them in Jesus name, then he is seeing better results than those calling him a compromiser.

Your pastor sounds like the real deal to me.

[n david]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

If there was ever a day pastors should get up and preached outward holiness it’s today. Pastors have stoped preaching it and the world has just about completely erased the distinction little by little and now we have tons of confused kids growing up.

Outward dress codes based on what? Which Pastor and church view of dress code is correct? I'd argue the reason there is confusion is because the majority of Apo/Pente churches don't even agree on outward dress codes. One church believes one thing, the other believes something else. Then it really confuses people when you have beard prohibitions based, not on the Bible, but on some outdated stigma from 50 to 60 years ago.

Biblical holiness is so much more than what American Apo/Pente churches have used to label it as dress codes.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by derAlte

I suppose because I've been in smaller churches my whole life, I tend to lean toward Ehud's position on how to deal with issues. When there are just a few families, who all know each other very well (some of whom may be related), it is folly to humiliate people publicly. It is much better to privately take someone aside and gently explain things than to put people's mistakes on blast from the pulpit. Would you like your sins to be publically exposed before everyone?

I have no direct experience with this, but it seems it would be easier when the crowd is large to be more direct about issues without naming people's names.

Difference between people “ mistakes “ and willfully sinning. Usually when it’s behind the pulpit it’s less humiliating because nobody will know who it is. If the pastor deal with it one on one that can actually be more humiliating. However the Bible actually says rebuke before all so other will fear. I know that is rare to have to do it but still times it needs to be done.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Ehud

To hear my pastor tell it, he wants souls in the pews so he has a chance to preach the gospel to them. The other pastors seem content to preach to the same 20 people each week.
Just so no one reads this and misconstrues it, my pastor does not think attendance numbers are the end all be all. But if the name of the game is preaching the gospel to as many people as possible and bringing them to repentance and baptizing them in Jesus name, then he is seeing better results than those calling him a compromiser.

That's awesome! Now some Pastor's would disagree and say that church is for saints, not sinners. That sermons should be focused on the saved, not the lost. But that's another discussion.

A friend of mine from Bible school days was telling me of how the church he previously attended was growing by leaps and bounds. (He's since moved away from that area and attends a different UPC church) They remodeled their church to make more room in the sanctuary and within a year had to build a new building.

I asked what they were doing? It was around the same time that a couple other UPC churches had left the org and dropped the dress code, so I asked if his church did that. No, he said. I asked if Maddix or one of the Soul Winner Boot Camp evangelists were there. He said, no that isn't it either.

I asked, well then, what is it that your church is doing that is causing this incredible growth? He said he would think about it and get back to me. A couple days later we spoke and he said, the only thing he could think which was different than other churches he had attended or visited is that every week the Pastor would end his message with the Gospel (death, burial, resurrection) and New Birth. Without fail, the Gospel would be presented in the message and people responded to the Gospel.

He said, it's so simple. The Gospel demands a response - it's natural, so when it's presented to unsaved people, they respond.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by derAlte

I suppose because I've been in smaller churches my whole life, I tend to lean toward Ehud's position on how to deal with issues. When there are just a few families, who all know each other very well (some of whom may be related), it is folly to humiliate people publicly. It is much better to privately take someone aside and gently explain things than to put people's mistakes on blast from the pulpit. Would you like your sins to be publically exposed before everyone?

I have no direct experience with this, but it seems it would be easier when the crowd is large to be more direct about issues without naming people's names.

Originally Posted by derAlte

Your pastor sounds like the real deal to me.

The relatively small congregation size is very much a reason to do things more privately. When you live in a small town, and name something over the pulpit, either everyone knows who it is, or even worse, they start trying to guess who it is.

And I am very thankful for my pastor. I don’t think they get much more real than him.