UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Exactly right, and I don't give any pastor my personal opinion if NOT asked first. He is building the work, or it is thriving and growing. You walk into a church and people are strangers to you. Visiting ministers tend to pull on the white glove and give the place a good once over. Then over at Cracker Barrel you get some free unsolicited advise about Sister Gilly Ginamae, and Uncle Fetus LeRoy, about how they both watch GOT, but both are looking as Apostolic as a 1970 Apostolic record album cover??? Or a Sister who is still wearing pants after they found out she has been in the church for over 15 years??? Hey I done it when I was a wee lamb, yet, I got egg on my face later on, when I considered the greater scope. Pastor Foofoofnick must be not hammering down the nails that are sticking out!!! He got to take charge and tell these people how the cow ate the cabbage!!! No, he must listen to God, and allow the Lord to lead him in his church family. Unhindered by anyone's unsolicited advise.

Should an evangelist inquire as to the general condition of the (local) church, or any pressing problems that might need to be addressed, upon accepting an invitation to come preach?

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by n david

The 60s and 70s are LONG past. Facial hair is NOT synonymous with hippies and rebellion anymore. It's ridiculous that people still try to use that as a reason to ban facial hair on white men.

If you want to talk "culture" and give exceptions due to "culture," which is what the UPC has done with its dress code -- then understand that the "culture" today has removed the old stigma of the beard. Executives, Politicians and Ministers now grow facial hair. It is current "culture" for men of all colors and nationalities to grow facial hair.

Actually, this "culture" stuff has no basis in scripture. Paul wrote that we're not Jew or Greek, bond or free, but one body. Just as with the Godhead and New Birth salvation, there should be no variance in the body when it comes to actual Bible holiness. The reason there is points how less it is about Biblical doctrine and more it is about personal preferences.

Also, you forgot to mention that Jesus had a beard.

I think you missed the point. The point is there are still those in the Church who came out of a lifestyle of rebellion that was identified by their long hair and facial hair. When they were converted they tried to get as far away from that identity as possible so they cut their hair and shaved. It was about identity and representation.

IMAO any Pastor with any sense would rather keep some things in place than cause mass confusion and disunity in a local Church. To me its the safest thing to do.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Should an evangelist inquire as to the general condition of the (local) church, or any pressing problems that might need to be addressed, upon accepting an invitation to come preach?

at my local church the Pastor makes it clear to the church that there is never conversation between him and any visiting minister concerning church issues.
The minister has total liberty to preach whatever he feels God has given him to preach.

If the visiting minister preaches something that touches our front door we know its God.

Thats not to say Pastors cant give direction to visiting ministers I certainly think they can. For example my own Pastor told me and another minister in the church a few weeks ago what topic he wanted us to preach on. He just said Bro. so and so your going to preach on "the power of the truth" sunday morning and told me Bro. your going to preach on " the authority of the Holy Ghost" sunday night. And we said YES SIR!

[derAlte]

Originally Posted by Esaias

A teacher is to teach Thus Saith The Lord, book, chapter, and verse. Just because the teacher suddenly gets "new light" on something doesn't mean anything, rather instead everything has to be presented book chapter verse. And the congregation accepts book chapter and verse regardless of their personal preferences, history, whatever, cause a congregation of Christians is a congregation of dead folks who's personal wants and wishes have been buried and replaced with God's Will.

If not, if book chapter and verse butts heads with personal wants wishes and issues, and book chapter and verse don't prevail? That person or congregation has much bigger issues and needs to get saved all over again. Because either Jesus, the Incarnate Word, is Lord of ALL, or not at all.

Well said, Sir!

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

I think you missed the point. The point is there are still those in the Church who came out of a lifestyle of rebellion that was identified by their long hair and facial hair. When they were converted they tried to get as far away from that identity as possible so they cut their hair and shaved. It was about identity and representation.

IMAO any Pastor with any sense would rather keep some things in place than cause mass confusion and disunity in a local Church. To me its the safest thing to do.

By "keep some things in place," do you mean things like platform rules? Or are we meaning the pastor still teaches that beards equal rebellion?

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Ehud

By "keep some things in place," do you mean things like platform rules? Or are we meaning the pastor still teaches that beards equal rebellion?

Good question. platform rules sure. but the Pastor should use a little wisdom dealing with traditions. I would rather be taught why a tradition is being kept than have to wonder why we do what we do. So I think if a tradition is kept there needs to be an understanding why.

I can only speak for me but I want to know the whys.
Im not totally against traditions some are for the safety of the saints.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Good question. platform rules sure. but the Pastor should use a little wisdom dealing with traditions. I would rather be taught why a tradition is being kept than have to wonder why we do what we do. So I think if a tradition is kept there needs to be an understanding why.

I can only speak for me but I want to know the whys.
Im not totally against traditions some are for the safety of the saints.

Dead on. We would do well to speak with our pastors about these things instead of assuming they are just cooks who can't keep up with the times.

[Ehud]

For those who think we should be calling out sin from the pulpit because it can't be tolerated amongst the saints, how do you shoot from the pulpit and hit only saints? It seems as though that would be some tricky business.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Ehud

For those who think we should be calling out sin from the pulpit because it can't be tolerated amongst the saints, how do you shoot from the pulpit and hit only saints? It seems as though that would be some tricky business.

It is supposed to be scatter barreled and hit everyone.

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

It is supposed to be scatter barreled and hit everyone.

You objected to my characterization of "blowing up new converts," but how can a pastor put the hammer down in a mixed congregation without potentially doing that? I'm not saying it would be his goal, but collateral damage is a real thing.

For instance, a new couple arrives at the church. In the following weeks, they meet with the pastor for counseling and discuss some of the things they know they need to work on. Pastor hammers away on a few of these things in the next Sunday sermon because Sister Sally Pewsitter across the way has been doing them and that pastor wants to nip it in the bud. New couple thinks he is airing dirty laundry and never comes back. Has that pastor done his job or done more harm than good?