UPC, ALJC, PAW, etc.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Good points. But I see issues with a few of them.

What if someone brought up that more people leave our movement over the outdated personal convictions that have become sacred traditions than outright sins like adultery, drunkenness, or fornication? I see them everywhere. In fact, on the street, those who are familiar with the Apostolic churches and organizations around here will almost always bring up the standards they just felt were stuffy and stifling their love for Christ.

Even this forum, and other Apostolic forums and social media have a near constant discussions on this with both sides passionate about their beliefs. However, but the average person on the street who visits our churches, or eventually leaves, will talk about how these "standards" contributed to why they left.

This could indicate that these traditions are perhaps more dangerous than we realize, only offering "safety" to those saints who prefer that things not change from what they've known since the 1960's.

I can only speak for me but when I came into the Church out of the world I received the real Holy Ghost and my life that I once lived in the flesh I no longer lived it. I didnt care what I had to do, not do, change, whatever. I just knew I was dead in sin one day and the next I was given mercy and was now alive in Christ. I didnt know that beard shaving was not in the scripture and I didnt care, i didnt know many things but what I did know was I was changed and I found something real and worth keeping.

Those that come and go and never receive the Holy Ghost and those that say they received God but never die to the flesh I dont think we owe them one apology for what we live and believe. A new convert, yes lets teach and love and cherish. But those that just cant live for God based on our dress code and standards sorry but they didnt die like I did when I repented neither did they receive what I received when I got the Holy Ghost.

We believe what we believe because we feel like it is well pleasing to God and is the safest stance for our local assembly. People can talk and criticize if they want to, but let something go wrong in their life or let them need God to do a miracle in their life, who do they always come back to? The Apostolic Church, that Holiness church that every makes fun of and they left because we believe in long hair and clean shaven faces. I have seen it too many times they know where to go to Find the power of God that they so desperately need.

We owe no apologies.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

It would go something like this.
Pastor: Church I just want everyone to know that a few days ago the "Doe" family came to me in confidence and private and wanted to talk to me about their struggle with letting go of Jerry Springer.
Well Church I have you to know we still stand against the Devilvission around here and if you got a tv your not going to be serving in any capacity in this church.
now God gave me this message while I was a fishing on my 80 acres saturday because I didnt have time to stop by the church this week and fall asleep at my desk...I mean praying in my office... now if this offends you, you dont have the Holy Ghost and your not submitted to your Pastor. You know I just want you to be saved.....

Boy didnt God speak to us this morning? He really walked up our driveway and gnocked on our front door didnt he?

I dont know why the "Doe" family stopped coming to church, I guess the Fire was getting too hot for them and they were offended at the Word of God....

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Antipas

I don't think the Sunday School department should stop putting up rainbows because the gays are using them. lol

Did I ever say they should? I teach against men wearing facial hair but I don’t teach against Sunday school department putting up mosses with a beard. You just don’t want to admit what you wear affiliates you with something and you just want to take it to the extreme Trying to make light of what we stand for. Everyone knows in our church the Bible does not say “ tho shall not have a beard “ but they understand is a “ standard “ of the church. If people want to get in rebellion over facial hair then obviously there is much deeper issues.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

It was a joke. If a Pastor did that they should go ahead a get a job at Wendy's.

You had me worried.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

I can only speak for me but when I came into the Church out of the world I received the real Holy Ghost and my life that I once lived in the flesh I no longer lived it. I didnt care what I had to do, not do, change, whatever. I just knew I was dead in sin one day and the next I was given mercy and was now alive in Christ. I didnt know that beard shaving was not in the scripture and I didnt care, i didnt know many things but what I did know was I was changed and I found something real and worth keeping.

Those that come and go and never receive the Holy Ghost and those that say they received God but never die to the flesh I dont think we owe them one apology for what we live and believe. A new convert, yes lets teach and love and cherish. But those that just cant live for God based on our dress code and standards sorry but they didnt die like I did when I repented neither did they receive what I received when I got the Holy Ghost.

We believe what we believe because we feel like it is well pleasing to God and is the safest stance for our local assembly. People can talk and criticize if they want to, but let something go wrong in their life or let them need God to do a miracle in their life, who do they always come back to? The Apostolic Church, that Holiness church that every makes fun of and they left because we believe in long hair and clean shaven faces. I have seen it too many times they know where to go to Find the power of God that they so desperately need.

We owe no apologies.

Yup so true.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

No matter what side of the fence a pastor is on he would be a hireling to be like this.

Ouch. The truth hurts.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Ehud

What sin is it that needs rebuked in front of an entire congregation that all of those people don't already know is wrong? Can they catch adultery like it's chicken pox or something? Or perhaps thievery is spreading like cholera?

Maybe I have been reading too much into some of these responses, but they always seem like the pastor is going out of his way to mention something that is festering in the congregation. Couldn't all of that be addressed with a sermon that includes "and such were some of you?" Or is that not putting down the hammer hard enough?

Honestly, I've only seen a pastor rebuke openly like this over playing cards. lol

Apparently some new family really enjoyed card games and had a cook out and invited some church saints. They all played cards, and the church saints really enjoyed it and they began playing with other saints. Before you knew it... the whole congregation was Straight Flush, and the pastor had to call the Devil's bluff. lol

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Ehud

What sin is it that needs rebuked in front of an entire congregation that all of those people don't already know is wrong? Can they catch adultery like it's chicken pox or something? Or perhaps thievery is spreading like cholera?

Maybe I have been reading too much into some of these responses, but they always seem like the pastor is going out of his way to mention something that is festering in the congregation. Couldn't all of that be addressed with a sermon that includes "and such were some of you?" Or is that not putting down the hammer hard enough?

You sure could. I’ve talked to people that have got caught up in spirits that they thought they would have never done the things they did. But you are looking at thing in the natural and doing it that way you will never understand the spiritual things.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

But those that just cant live for God based on our dress code and standards sorry but they didnt die like I did when I repented neither did they receive what I received when I got the Holy Ghost.

Not sure I'm reading this right. It almost appears you're saying that people who don't agree with your dress codes and standards didn't really repent or receive the HG.

I must be reading it wrong, though. Please explain.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Honestly, I've only seen a pastor rebuke openly like this over playing cards. lol

Apparently some new family really enjoyed card games and had a cook out and invited some church saints. They all played cards, and the church saints really enjoyed it and they began playing with other saints. Before you knew it... the whole congregation was Straight Flush, and the pastor had to call the Devil's bluff. lol

My father did the same over Texas Hold'em. Didn't name the men, but everyone knew who was going over to Bro's house to play.