Trojan Horse

[Bro Flame]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Are you a trinitarian?

I didn't know.

Not at all. I haven't been Trinitarian for close to five years.

[consapente89]

Originally Posted by Holy Roller

Not at all. I haven't been Trinitarian for close to five years.

Then he ain't your brother

[n david]

Originally Posted by consapente89

Then he ain't your brother

"He may be your cousin, but he's not your brother" [if he doesn't have the Name.] Johnny James

[consapente89]

Originally Posted by n david

"He may be your cousin, but he's not your brother" [if he doesn't have the Name.] Johnny James

could be..could be..

[Esaias]

Acts 1:16 KJV
Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Who was Peter calling brethren here?

Acts 3:17 KJV
And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it , as did also your rulers.

Who are these brethren?

Acts 13:26 KJV
Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

What about these brethren?

[consapente89]

Brethren in Abraham. I guess all men could be our brethren through the first Adam, but not all men are our brethren after the second Adam.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by consapente89

Brethren in Abraham. I guess all men could be our brethren through the first Adam, but not all men are our brethren after the second Adam.

Leviticus 19:17-18 KJV
Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. [18] Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord .

Here brother and neighbour are used interchangeably, because an Israelite's neighbour would most likely be a kinsman ("brother"). But notice:

Luke 10:27-29 KJV
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. [28] And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. [29] But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

Jesus' answer was the famous Good Samaritan parable.

One's brethren are one's kinsmen, near and far:

Deuteronomy 23:7 KJV
Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite; for he is thy brother: thou shalt not abhor an Egyptian; because thou wast a stranger in his land.

Brethren is therefore a term used for one's family members, one's kinsmen and related near ethnicities (nations), and there is also a more restricted usage by which is meant a fellow member of the household of God:

Matthew 12:49-50 KJV
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! [50] For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

I cannot find a specific instance of "not thy brother" or "not my brother" in the Bible. Perhaps I missed one? Those who aren't your brethren are by definition strangers or foreignors. I do not see where the apostles made an effort to let people know "you ain't my brother". Especially in regards to a person who professes that Jesus is the Christ.

An interesting passage is this one:

2 Thessalonians 3:6,14-15 KJV
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. [14] And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. [15] Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Those who refuse to obey apostolic doctrine are to be excommunicated and shunned, yet still referred to as "brother(s)".

I think, rather than looking for reasons to tell someone we are not their brethren, we should focus on common ground as a means of teaching them the way of God more perfectly. Paul and Peter seemed to use that approach with both Jews and Gentiles. I seriously doubt Mr Clennendan (sp?) or whatever his name is someone who hates Jesus and wants to squash the message of the cross. Is he correct in all things? No. Are you? Or me? If we think ourselves to be complete in doctrine, faith, and practice, then maybe we should extend a little common courtesy to others who might be a bit behind the curve.

I am so glad that when I first met an apostolic I wasn't told "you aren't my brother because you don't understand Oneness theology". Just saying.

[Esaias]

At the same time, let me be clear I am NOT AT ALL proposing some ecumenical "let's all get along and ignore doctrinal differences" nonsense. You can be my brother and still split hell wide open because of your heresies and sins. (Speaking of "you" in a general sense.)

[consapente89]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Leviticus 19:17-18 KJV
Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. [18] Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord .

Here brother and neighbour are used interchangeably, because an Israelite's neighbour would most likely be a kinsman ("brother"). But notice:

Luke 10:27-29 KJV
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. [28] And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. [29] But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

Jesus' answer was the famous Good Samaritan parable.

One's brethren are one's kinsmen, near and far:

Deuteronomy 23:7 KJV
Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite; for he is thy brother: thou shalt not abhor an Egyptian; because thou wast a stranger in his land.

Brethren is therefore a term used for one's family members, one's kinsmen and related near ethnicities (nations), and there is also a more restricted usage by which is meant a fellow member of the household of God:

Matthew 12:49-50 KJV
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! [50] For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

I cannot find a specific instance of "not thy brother" or "not my brother" in the Bible. Perhaps I missed one? Those who aren't your brethren are by definition strangers or foreignors. I do not see where the apostles made an effort to let people know "you ain't my brother". Especially in regards to a person who professes that Jesus is the Christ.

An interesting passage is this one:

2 Thessalonians 3:6,14-15 KJV
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. [14] And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. [15] Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Those who refuse to obey apostolic doctrine are to be excommunicated and shunned, yet still referred to as "brother(s)".

I think, rather than looking for reasons to tell someone we are not their brethren, we should focus on common ground as a means of teaching them the way of God more perfectly. Paul and Peter seemed to use that approach with both Jews and Gentiles. I seriously doubt Mr Clennendan (sp?) or whatever his name is someone who hates Jesus and wants to squash the message of the cross. Is he correct in all things? No. Are you? Or me? If we think ourselves to be complete in doctrine, faith, and practice, then maybe we should extend a little common courtesy to others who might be a bit behind the curve.

I am so glad that when I first met an apostolic I wasn't told "you aren't my brother because you don't understand Oneness theology". Just saying.

I’m sorry BROTHER, but I don’t think Paul was talking about the New Birth message or the Godhead when he spoke of a brother walking disorderly. He was speaking of the holiness lifestyle. Just as he told the Corinthian church not to keep company with any man who is called a brother and is a fornicator.

To be fair, I don’t think it’s wise to go around telling trinitarians “you’re not my brother”, either. However, it is a false statement to say that they are our brethren in Christ. It is the New Birth that makes us sons and daughters, children of God. It is the New Birth that makes us of God and joint heirs with Christ, and indeed joint heirs with each other. It is the light of truth that enables us to have fellowship one with the other, as his blood cleanses is from all sin. We are in the same kingdom with trinitarians, not adopted into the same family of God, and not heirs of the same promise.

Of course, it would, in most cases be fruitless (even damaging) to tell a trinitarian “hey! You’re not my brother!” However, I have seen far too many Apostolics calling trinitarians brother that later denied the essentiality of the Jesus name message affirmed that trinitarians are apart of the Kingdom of God. Mr. Clendenen seems like a sincere man, a good man. His message affected me. He is not my brother, and if I had the opportunity to talk to him I would attempt to use wisdom to expound the truth to him.

[consapente89]

I’ve never told a trinitarian they were not my brother, but I’d gladly correct any Apostolic who referred to trinitarians as their brethren.