Initial evidence

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Yes, he thinks the Jews are biblical Judah.

Yes, there are people in Rev 20. How do I explain them?

Is that where Brother Jesse has his additional people?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Is that where Brother Jesse has his additional people?

Take a look at this

https://www.youtube.com/live/X77HY5c...mFKwOzLvlN48mr

**

The first resurrection is the Bride, the Acts 2:38 immortal commandment keeping govt.

The 2nd resurrection is the general resurrection where the non commandment keeping people and the wicked are resurrected.
The wicked are annihilated and the others continue into chapter 22 to be ministered to by the immortals.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Yes, he thinks the Jews are biblical Judah.

Yes, there are people in Rev 20. How do I explain them?

Depends on whether you take a postmillennial view or a premillennial view. Personally, I am a premillennialist. So, the way I understand Revelation 20 is this:

There is the first resurrection, which is the resurrected new covenant Israel. The other nations are no longer under the influence of the deceiving power so they are instead under the influence of the church/Israel. This period continues for a long, long time (I do not believe the millennium is strictly a literal 1000 years, but rather it is symbolic of a long, extended period of time in comparison to the other time periods given in Revelation).

Eventually, the deceiving power is no longer restrained and the "nations which are the in the four corners of the earth" are deceived into waging war against the church/Israel. They are destroyed, and the general resurrection and final judgment follows, and whoever is not in the Book of Life is destroyed, leaving only the saints.

That there can be resurrected saints on earth after the Second Advent (as it is termed) while also there being unresurrected people is a difficulty that many have trouble with. Many think this implies some kind of "second chance at salvation" for those who prior to the return of Jesus had rejected Him. But the Bible, including Revelation, is clear, that when He returns His ENEMIES are destroyed. The Beast, the False Prophet, and their "armies" (followers, supporters, allies) are destroyed at His return.

So these "other people" aren't His enemies who "now have a second chance". Rather, they are the nations other than Israel who are now the primary subjects of the Gospel message.

The plan of God involves Him choosing a people (Israel), redeeming them from their stubborn iniquity, and then sending THEM to the rest of the nations. Currently it seems we are in the phase in which the Gospel is primarily going to Israel. This of course doesn't mean non-Israelites cannot be joined to the Lord, anymore than the Exodus meant non-Israelites were prohibited from serving God and being among His people. But God's primary focus has been Israel, first in getting them to be a nation in covenant with them, and then second in getting them REDEEMED because they had sold themselves to other gods for nothing of value.

Once God has gotten Israel's act together (which is what has been slowly but surely happening since the first century), then the other nations will become the primary focus of the Divine Plan.

People also have the idea that "if there are other people in the Millennium then they somehow get saved without the new birth" but I have always wondered why that would be? The fact that the saints have been resurrected and are established as the government of God upon the earth doesn't mean people don't need to be or can't be born again. I just never understood the reasoning. People need to hear about Jesus, they need to get right with God and be baptised in His Name, they need to be filled with the power of the Holy Ghost.

I think maybe people think that if Jesus returned, then the Holy Ghost couldn't be given to anyone? Because He said "If I go not away the Comforter would not come"? But this has to do with His Ascension, not necessarily His "absence". And people say that Jesus being back would mean these people didn't have faith, they would see Him literally. But Thomas and the other disciples saw Him after His resurrection and they are said to have faith. So just because Jesus was back and the saints were resurrected would in no way preclude people repenting, being baptised in His Name, and receiving the Holy Ghost in response to the Gospel.

I think the issue is not about supposed "second chances" or even "second classes of people" but is simply about different phases of the advance of God's Plan from Israel to all the nations, tribes, families, tongues, etc of the earth.

And I certainly have ALWAYS acknowledged there are issues with premillennialism, that require careful study and comparison with the Scriptures. But the alternatives (postmillennialism and amillennialism) I have found to have many more issues, which are often more serious and problematic than anything I have found with Biblical premillennialism (as opposed to goofy dispensational or other futurist variations of millennial eschatologies).

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Take a look at this

https://www.youtube.com/live/X77HY5c...mFKwOzLvlN48mr

**

The first resurrection is the Bride, the Acts 2:38 immortal commandment keeping govt.

The 2nd resurrection is the general resurrection where the non commandment keeping people and the wicked are resurrected.
The wicked are annihilated and the others continue into chapter 22 to be ministered to by the immortals.

Thank you for the video Sister.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Depends on whether you take a postmillennial view or a premillennial view. Personally, I am a premillennialist. So, the way I understand Revelation 20 is this:

There is the first resurrection, which is the resurrected new covenant Israel. The other nations are no longer under the influence of the deceiving power so they are instead under the influence of the church/Israel. This period continues for a long, long time (I do not believe the millennium is strictly a literal 1000 years, but rather it is symbolic of a long, extended period of time in comparison to the other time periods given in Revelation).

Eventually, the deceiving power is no longer restrained and the "nations which are the in the four corners of the earth" are deceived into waging war against the church/Israel. They are destroyed, and the general resurrection and final judgment follows, and whoever is not in the Book of Life is destroyed, leaving only the saints.

That there can be resurrected saints on earth after the Second Advent (as it is termed) while also there being unresurrected people is a difficulty that many have trouble with. Many think this implies some kind of "second chance at salvation" for those who prior to the return of Jesus had rejected Him. But the Bible, including Revelation, is clear, that when He returns His ENEMIES are destroyed. The Beast, the False Prophet, and their "armies" (followers, supporters, allies) are destroyed at His return.

So these "other people" aren't His enemies who "now have a second chance". Rather, they are the nations other than Israel who are now the primary subjects of the Gospel message.

The plan of God involves Him choosing a people (Israel), redeeming them from their stubborn iniquity, and then sending THEM to the rest of the nations. Currently it seems we are in the phase in which the Gospel is primarily going to Israel. This of course doesn't mean non-Israelites cannot be joined to the Lord, anymore than the Exodus meant non-Israelites were prohibited from serving God and being among His people. But God's primary focus has been Israel, first in getting them to be a nation in covenant with them, and then second in getting them REDEEMED because they had sold themselves to other gods for nothing of value.

Once God has gotten Israel's act together (which is what has been slowly but surely happening since the first century), then the other nations will become the primary focus of the Divine Plan.

People also have the idea that "if there are other people in the Millennium then they somehow get saved without the new birth" but I have always wondered why that would be? The fact that the saints have been resurrected and are established as the government of God upon the earth doesn't mean people don't need to be or can't be born again. I just never understood the reasoning. People need to hear about Jesus, they need to get right with God and be baptised in His Name, they need to be filled with the power of the Holy Ghost.

I think maybe people think that if Jesus returned, then the Holy Ghost couldn't be given to anyone? Because He said "If I go not away the Comforter would not come"? But this has to do with His Ascension, not necessarily His "absence". And people say that Jesus being back would mean these people didn't have faith, they would see Him literally. But Thomas and the other disciples saw Him after His resurrection and they are said to have faith. So just because Jesus was back and the saints were resurrected would in no way preclude people repenting, being baptised in His Name, and receiving the Holy Ghost in response to the Gospel.

I think the issue is not about supposed "second chances" or even "second classes of people" but is simply about different phases of the advance of God's Plan from Israel to all the nations, tribes, families, tongues, etc of the earth.

And I certainly have ALWAYS acknowledged there are issues with premillennialism, that require careful study and comparison with the Scriptures. But the alternatives (postmillennialism and amillennialism) I have found to have many more issues, which are often more serious and problematic than anything I have found with Biblical premillennialism (as opposed to goofy dispensational or other futurist variations of millennial eschatologies).

Brother Esaias have you anything written out with the correlating verses?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Thank you for the video Sister.

you can skim through it to get the general idea.

[Amanah]

Maybe I should start a thread for light doctrine and try to move the posts from here to it for a reference.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Take a look at this

https://www.youtube.com/live/X77HY5c...mFKwOzLvlN48mr

**

The first resurrection is the Bride, the Acts 2:38 immortal commandment keeping govt.

The 2nd resurrection is the general resurrection where the non commandment keeping people and the wicked are resurrected.
The wicked are annihilated and the others continue into chapter 22 to be ministered to by the immortals.

ANYONE who is NOT in the Book of Life gets "ministered to" in the Lake of fire by the Judgment of God. So what does it take to get into the Book of Life?

"What shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?"

"Thou knowest the Commandments... This do... and follow Me".

Non-commandment keeping people are called "those who practice lawlessness". They do not follow the commandments of God, they do not do His will, they follow their own will, their own religious traditions based largely upon the False Prophet and the "mark of the Beast", or else they are plain idolaters.

So it seems he has some kind of Light Doctrine or "Two Classes of Christians who are both saved but one is superior to the other" going on.

Whereas The Bible doesn't seem to indicate such a thing. You are either in the church or not. If you aren't doing what you should then you either get disciplined and change your ways, or you get put out. At least that's how i read my Bible.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Brother Esaias have you anything written out with the correlating verses?

I suppose I could do a write up for the thread?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

you can skim through it to get the general idea.

I'm listening to it now. I can't skim through it. Because it may sound like all the same, but certain teachers add their own nuances. When I skim through a teaching I always miss something.