The Difference Between the PCI of the Merger and the Current Counterfeits

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by seguidordejesus

TB,

You can't go to Egypt! Who'll take Felicity to work??

There's a bicycle in the garage!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sabellius

Justification:

The doctrine of Justification knows at least two views (both views were presented at the 2003 UGST Symposium) in the UPC. Dr. Bernard holds the most prominent view (Justification is the experience of salvation) and then there is the second--the view of Dr. Segraves (Justification at the point of faith). The latter view is the one I hold. I would caution my friends and enemies, at this point however, that this view does not do violence to what we currently believe about the New Birth--for the most part (some people have some odd ideas).

In Genesis 15:5-6 Abraham’s only response to God’s promise, at that point, was that "he believed in the LORD." The verb translated "believed," indicates that Abraham trusted God to keep His promise. Actually no other response was even expected at that point. Although the genuineness of Abraham’s faith was later demonstrated, in a tangible way, as he offered Isaac, it serves Paul’s purpose to focus on the fact that Abraham was justified apart from and prior to works (the same example is given of David in Romans 4:5-8). I believe that, although faith results in obedience to God’s commands, justification occurs at the point of faith.

Genesis 15:6 indicates that because Abraham trusted in the LORD, God imputed or reckoned righteousness to Him. Because Abraham trusted God, he had a relationship with God. Genesis 15:6 says nothing about Abraham’s personal righteousness; it does not suggest that righteousness was imparted to him so that he was regenerated. In fact, according to Paul, just the opposite was the case: God “justifies the ungodly” (Romans 4:5). The only possible meaning for this is that when ungodly persons put their trust in God, their “faith is accounted for righteousness” (Romans 4:5).

Thank you brother. I believe JD holds to the same position as Segraves as well

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

And here all this time I thought we all believed that God was ONE??

Bro, The Holy Ghost IS Jesus. He is the Spirit of Truth. I cannot emphasize the Holy Ghost without emphasizing Jesus as they are one in the same

Have you read the New Testament lately? You don't really expect me to believe that there is no distinction between Father, Son, and Holy Ghost presented in Scripture?

If you don't understand that we come to the Father, through Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit, than you've really missed the truth of God's eternal purpose in redemption.

For example, have you not read how that God (Father) raised up Jesus Christ (Son) from the dead, by the Holy Spirit?

For this reason Paul states in Ephesians 2:18, "For through him[Jesus] we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."

I feel quite comfortable using the language of the Bible to express God's eternal purpose in reconciling us unto Himself. It's not trinitarian to understand what I have stated above.

[Praxeas]

Hmmmm....should we move this discussion over to the doctrine area?

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Hmmmm....should we move this discussion over to the doctrine area?

No need! I have no intention because I have no time to get into a lengthy discussion on this. I was just clarifying what is obvious in Scripture.

[mizpeh]

I believe that Justification occurs before any baptism. I believe that Justification refers, naturally, to the declaring of an individual as righteous. God declares us just. How else could the Spirt of God enter Cornelius (c.f. Acts 10:1-46) prior to water baptism?

Sabellius,

I'm not disagreeing with what you have said in the quote above, but I'm curious with this reasoning what happens when a Spirit-filled believer sins? Do you believe the Spirit leaves that person because of the sin? How can a holy God abide within a unholy vessel?

[JN Anderson]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Sabellius,

I'm not disagreeing with what you have said in the quote above, but I'm curious with this reasoning what happens when a Spirit-filled believer sins? Do you believe the Spirit leaves that person because of the sin? How can a holy God abide within a unholy vessel?

Are you referring to the state of Cornelius (not being baptized) when the Holy Spirit filled him?

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

No need! I have no intention because I have no time to get into a lengthy discussion on this. I was just clarifying what is obvious in Scripture.

Only to you and the other Trinitarians out there.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by philjones

Only to you and the other Trinitarians out there.

NOw there is a thought.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Sabellius,

I'm not disagreeing with what you have said in the quote above, but I'm curious with this reasoning what happens when a Spirit-filled believer sins? Do you believe the Spirit leaves that person because of the sin? How can a holy God abide within a unholy vessel?

I do not fault you for using this, but this is the whole nature of justification, God declares us to be something inherently we don't have. Legally we are in right standing with God because of the righteousness of Jesus's offering. But in reality, you and I still have sin, either by commission, ommission or ignorance. Sin has infected humanity to point that it will never be eradicated from saved folks until a resurrected body. Oh, the marvel of salvation!!!