Do "OPs" Really Have More Power than other Christians?

[crakjak]

Having been around OP's for over fifty years and now having been fellowshipping with many other Christians. I have observed an interesting phenomenon, that those who embrace the Word and declare Jesus Lord, I don't see any significance difference in the results in their lives.

Healing> no difference.
Changed lives, other than outward appearances> no difference.
Love of God> no difference
Love for the Word of God> maybe stronger among non OP's.
Love of each other> no difference.

So is the proclaimed "greater power" in the lives of OP's just believing their own press, or is there real difference? After fifty+ years I say the Word in folks lives makes the difference not the OP's doctrine.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Having been around OP's for over fifty years and now having been fellowshipping with many other Christians. I have observed an interesting phenomenon, that those who embrace the Word and declare Jesus Lord, I don't see any significance difference in the results in their lives.

Healing> no difference.
Changed lives, other than outward appearances> no difference.
Love of God> no difference
Love for the Word of God> maybe stronger among non OP's.
Love of each other> no difference.

So is the proclaimed "greater power" in the lives of OP's just believing their own press, or is there real difference? After fifty+ years I say the Word in folks lives makes the difference not the OP's doctrine.

Cross over. Go ahead. You know you wanna.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Having been around OP's for over fifty years and now having been fellowshipping with many other Christians. I have observed an interesting phenomenon, that those who embrace the Word and declare Jesus Lord, I don't see any significance difference in the results in their lives.

Healing> no difference.
Changed lives, other than outward appearances> no difference.
Love of God> no difference
Love for the Word of God> maybe stronger among non OP's.
Love of each other> no difference.

So is the proclaimed "greater power" in the lives of OP's just believing their own press, or is there real difference? After fifty+ years I say the Word in folks lives makes the difference not the OP's doctrine.

Several years ago the Barna group (I think it was Barna) put out a study showing that statistically "the church" (Evangelical Christianity) was no different than the world. The divorce rates and teen pregnancy rates, everything charted out to be pretty much the same.

At that time I went through and compiled stats for the church I served. To my shock and hurt, we were in fact way ahead of "the world." Some of the stats were subjective. For example if a couple backslides and then divorces are they part of the church? To evaluate our ministry I counted every couple that had been members of the church over a period of 10 years. If they "backslid" I still counted them because they were still a part of us. We influenced their lives. Did we make a difference?

It's pretty sad. But if one goal of the church was to save families we failed miserably. In fact, there were cases where we were part of the problem. And before people pile on with a bunch of anti-UPC or anti-Apostolic posts here; the same criticism can be leveled at every other church organization in North America. Apostolics were no different than the fundamentalist Baptists who were no different than the liberal Baptists.

But that was crakjak's point, I guess.

[RevDWW]

If other "Christians" are not filled with the Holy Ghost then Yes Holy Ghost filled filled OP's have more power then them. For you shall receive power AFTER that the Holy Ghost is come upon you.

It's not a title that empowers, but the Name of Jesus, the blood of His atonement, and being filled with His Spirit.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Having been around OP's for over fifty years and now having been fellowshipping with many other Christians. I have observed an interesting phenomenon, that those who embrace the Word and declare Jesus Lord, I don't see any significance difference in the results in their lives.

Healing> no difference.
Changed lives, other than outward appearances> no difference.
Love of God> no difference
Love for the Word of God> maybe stronger among non OP's.
Love of each other> no difference.

So is the proclaimed "greater power" in the lives of OP's just believing their own press, or is there real difference? After fifty+ years I say the Word in folks lives makes the difference not the OP's doctrine.

Originally Posted by pelathais

Several years ago the Barna group (I think it was Barna) put out a study showing that statistically "the church" (Evangelical Christianity) was no different than the world. The divorce rates and teen pregnancy rates, everything charted out to be pretty much the same.

At that time I went through and compiled stats for the church I served. To my shock and hurt, we were in fact way ahead of "the world." Some of the stats were subjective. For example if a couple backslides and then divorces are they part of the church? To evaluate our ministry I counted every couple that had been members of the church over a period of 10 years. If they "backslid" I still counted them because they were still a part of us. We influenced their lives. Did we make a difference?

It's pretty sad. But if one goal of the church was to save families we failed miserably. In fact, there were cases where we were part of the problem. And before people pile on with a bunch of anti-UPC or anti-Apostolic posts here; the same criticism can be leveled at every other church organization in North America. Apostolics were no different than the fundamentalist Baptists who were no different than the liberal Baptists.

But that was crakjak's point, I guess.

CJ and Plethora - This is something I have thought much about and have never found satisfactory answers.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

If other "Christians" are not filled with the Holy Ghost then Yes Holy Ghost filled filled OP's have more power then them. For you shall receive power AFTER that the Holy Ghost is come upon you.

It's not a title that empowers, but the Name of Jesus, the blood of His atonement, and being filled with His Spirit.

But power to do and be what? If there is not real lasting evidence of the power to be witnesses...

[Newman]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Several years ago the Barna group (I think it was Barna) put out a study showing that statistically "the church" (Evangelical Christianity) was no different than the world. The divorce rates and teen pregnancy rates, everything charted out to be pretty much the same.

At that time I went through and compiled stats for the church I served. To my shock and hurt, we were in fact way ahead of "the world." Some of the stats were subjective. For example if a couple backslides and then divorces are they part of the church? To evaluate our ministry I counted every couple that had been members of the church over a period of 10 years. If they "backslid" I still counted them because they were still a part of us. We influenced their lives. Did we make a difference?

It's pretty sad. But if one goal of the church was to save families we failed miserably. In fact, there were cases where we were part of the problem. And before people pile on with a bunch of anti-UPC or anti-Apostolic posts here; the same criticism can be leveled at every other church organization in North America. Apostolics were no different than the fundamentalist Baptists who were no different than the liberal Baptists.

But that was crakjak's point, I guess.

Actually, I have had an experience to the contrary when evaluating God's people....

A long time ago (hehehe) when I was in high school I did a research project. I interviewed about 35 couples as to length of marriage, length of courtship, where they lived right after they got married, what their birth order was, how many children they had, how long before the first child was born, etc. etc.

In other words lots of interesting questions to compare the couples with each other. The most interesting observation I noted at the time, was that Oldest children don't marry Oldest children and Youngest children don't marry Youngest children (generally speaking).

But the most important thing I have observed about that study from so many years ago is that NOT ONE OF THESE COUPLES (all from church) that I interviewed have divorced and all continue to serve God or did so until their death.

Granted, I had interviewed alot of the parents of my peers among others. And granted most had already been in church as long as I could remember.

But doesn't that count? In other words, is it fair to count someone who has only been in church a year and was already divorced when they got here? Or count someone who came in and never really stuck?

Or count those as Christians that backslide and then get a divorce? DAH???

YES! I will stand up and say that many people count themselves a particular denomination that bear no resemblence to what they claim. That doesn't mean the Word of God is not effective in the true believer's lives.

I also acknowledge that marriages probably are bumpier today and good people sometimes find themselves divorcing through no fault of their own.

BUT overall, I will loudly declare that God is faithful and his commandments not grevious. There are true and wonderful benefits in serving God. Stronger marriages and healthier families are a normal outcome for those who measure their lives by God's Word.

And sometimes when life throws unexpected hardship upon a family, it may result ia a bumpy ride. No point in denying it. But this is where the rubber meets the road and God is faithful.

[Michael The Disciple]

I think the divorce rate among Spirit filled Christians is misleading. If you count Christians as a married couple where BOTH husband and wife are CURRENTLY serving Yeshua THAT rate would be low.

If you count a marriage where one of the participants is an unbeliever then it could be pretty high. The unbeliever will many times want to be free from living with the Christian.

And no I have not seen any difference in POWER between all the brands of Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians. I do see the difference in Pentecostal/Charismatic and those who oppose the Holy Spirit baptism.

[Truly Blessed]

It is interesting to me that since many of the denominational churches have embraced Pentecostal style worship, one can attend a Baptist, Mennonite, Alliance, non-denominational, etc. church and basically find the same dynamic you would find in most Pentecostal churches when it comes to worship. Many people leaving Pentecostal churches are attending these churches and feeling right at home. This surprises me.

As one who also has spent time with non-OP pastors and in fellowship with non-OP churches, I have to admit when you do away with the hype associated with many OP churches there isn't any more power there than in non OP churches.

I believe that the members of the Oneness Apostolic movement at large that DO NOT FAINT do, in fact, have, maintain, and display the inter workings of that Power that resides.

I have seen the Holy Ghost radically change lives, wherein other churches just gain members that only go so far.

I think some of what you've seen in fifty years are some warehouses full of backsliding, contained, and complacent would be Christians right there on the pew.

However, I have seen and felt the Power of the Holy Ghost in services and in homes, where I never felt or witnessed it prior to with my experience in other denominations.

Yet, I've seen dead UPCi situations too...no matter, doesn't take away from the Power and where it has gone.

When I was a kid I liked the idea of supernatural powers, it somewhat detracted me from considering any Christian power for the many sources of the forces, if you get my meaning.

Howbeit, as I traveled home one night from one of my first Illinois camp meetings at the age of 12 a terrible stomach pain came over me. The man that took us, who later became my step father, grabbed some oil and started praying for me in Jesus name as soon as I hit the couch.

I was healed with a power I had never felt before...I was like:

"What was that!"

So crakhead....what was that?

Since you really don't seem to know, after 50 years, I'll tell ya.

It was the Holy Ghost.

Same Holy Ghost that fell on me a few months later and caused me to speak with words I didn't even understand. I didn't purpose to do it...I was 12 for crying out loud...it just happened to me.

Same Holy Ghost that has empowered millions throughout time. Within and without OP situations, but never in situations without the Truth.

Same Holy Ghost that has healed countless people, including my own children before my eyes.

That's power friend, unlike you'll find anywhere else. And I've been everywhere else as far as denominations go, and Lord knows I played with matches elsewhere as well. The little powers cannot compare.

Maybe you spent fifty years in the bathroom at the wrong church(s).

Backsliders happen. It takes nothing away from the true Power that would have saved them, had they just not spent so much time going to the bathroom during service and really gotten involved with the things of God.

God does try to move in other situations when the enviroment is right, does that mean that they have a hold of the same Power, or does it mean that the Power is trying to get them to get a hold of Him?

Consider Matthew 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Looks like He was trying to get a hold of them, but they weren't interested in going any further...because they thought they had arrived. This is applicable across the spectrum, OPs alike. Yet I think you'll find in that day fewer OPs that stuck to it in this Matt 7 situation, than anyone else...the great deception of Charismania included.