Do you hafta go through the pastor?

[Coonskinner]

1Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1Co 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

That sounds like authority to me.

[Coonskinner]

And also, you really haven't dealt convincingly with the text in Hebrews 13, just hinted at some faulty translation.

The Scripture is very plain on this matter.

[Coonskinner]

1Co 4:18 Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come to you.
1Co 4:19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.
1Co 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
1Co 4:21 What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

The word "rod" there means "a stick or wand (as a cudgel or a cane or a baton of royalty)."

Brother, you are intelligent and smoother than average, but you are on the losing side here.

The Scripture doesn't support your position.

[Coonskinner]

2Co 10:8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed: 2Co 10:9 That I may not seem as if I would terrify you by letters.
2Co 10:10 For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible.
2Co 10:11 Let such an one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present.


Paul clearly had authority in the Church.

[Coonskinner]

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

The word rule there means, according to Strong, "to lead, that is command (with official authority)"

I don't know how in the cat hair you are getting around that one.

[Coonskinner]

We could whittle-whang around discussing the applications and boundaries of authority all day long, but to try and say it doesn't exist is to fly in the face of the Scripture.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

1Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1Co 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

That sounds like authority to me.

Ok CS, lets say Paul and by implication his expectations for the overseers at Cornith, have the authority to do something...what did he do that they should have done?

What directly responded to the immutable potency that Paul exercised? Did Paul exercise anything based on your cite? or did he rebuke those with oversight of a common setting, for not doing so?

How did Paul deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh? and did he? If he did, it probably involved counsel or general guidance to those who fellowship with these fornicators to continue no such activity. If his role is as a guide for the conduct of a common assembly, he has NO authority in the individual's life. HE DOES have a position as a GUIDE and those that will consider his counsels have a need to affirm in their spirits' the validity of his counsels.

So CS, did Paul deliver such a one to Satan?
Did he deliver Demas to Satan? If not, what a loss of opportunity for one containing such potency.
Did he deliver Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them? If no, why is he squemish about the use of his authority?

If you rebuke me in Jesus' name, do you think an authority will be summuned into action? If No, why not?

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

The word rule there means, according to Strong, "to lead, that is command (with official authority)"

I don't know how in the cat hair you are getting around that one.

If you don't know how to apply authority and the demonstration that would accompany its operation, its all just yak and conjecture about what may or may not be.

If we have RULERS we have MASTERS. That is an inescapable truth.

You are advancing a witness that states, within the body of Christ we have masters, yet our Lord and Saviour places a sober prohibition on such acknowledgements.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

We could whittle-whang around discussing the applications and boundaries of authority all day long, but to try and say it doesn't exist is to fly in the face of the Scripture.

and tossing the word authority around without identifying is application (realm where its in effect) and what and who is subject to it, is leaving out 50% of the entire necessary aspects of the word use.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by tbpew

Ok CS, lets say Paul and by implication his expectations for the overseers at Cornith, have the authority to do something...what did he do that they should have done?

What directly responded to the immutable potency that Paul exercised? Did Paul exercise anything based on your cite? or did he rebuke those with oversight of a common setting, for not doing so?

How did Paul deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh? and did he? If he did it, probably involved counsel or general guidance to those who fellowship with these fornicators to continue no such activity. If his role is as a guide for the conduct of a common assembly, he has NO authority in the individual's life. HE DOES have a position as a GUIDE and those that will consider his counsels have a need to affirm in their spirits' the validity of his counsels.

So CS, did Paul deliver such a one to Satan?
Did he deliver Demas to Satan? If not, what a loss of opportunity for one containing such potency.
Did he deliver Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them? If no, why is he squemish about the use of his authority?

If you rebuke me in Jesus' name, do you think an authority will be summuned into action? If No, why not?

It seems reasonable to assume that Paul or the elders in Corinth did "deliver such a one unto Satan." Why would he throw around such words if he didn't intend for it to happen?

As for me rebuking you in Jesus Name--that is at best a red herring, because there is no Scriptural precedent for rebuking a fellow Believer in that Name.

The Name is used to rebuke spirits.

As for how the man was delivered unto Satan, I believe they expelled the man from fellowship, and that there was very likely as utterance by one in spiritual authority doing exactly what Paul said to do.

I saw my pastor do this once with a couple who refused to repent of their fornication.

After reaching for them and counselling with them and exhausting every possible avenue, they brazenly contined in their sinful relationship and kept prancing into the services sitting together all lovey dovey.

One night, he finally got up, read I Corinthians 5, and explained that we had a couple who continued in sin after numerous admonitions.

He began to pray and ask the Lord to allow them to be delivered to Satan for a season until the affliction drove them to repentance.

He prayed that if it took car wrecks, affliction, trials or sickness, that they would be brought to repentance.

Two days later they were in a wreck--rolled their car several times and totalled it, but were not seriously injured.

They broke up their relationship, repented, and straightened up their lives.

The young man went to Bible College, and the young lady married a good man and is raising her children in the Church today.

Spiritual authority is a real thing, Brother.

As the Bard said, "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreampt of in ytour philosophy."