it's not healthy for you to just continue to fester and find fault.
it's ok to say you dont see eye to eye any longer...
and I dont sense much chance in reconciliation or healing...
so before it makes you bitter, maybe you should consider aligning yourself with a group that better matches your vision.
I have every intention of doing this when it's clear that there is no changing course for the UPC. Until then i'll stay, but that may change after Fri.
The UPC NEVER made a stance against these things. Pastors may have preached against them at their local church but the UPC NEVER made a stand against them. Do your homework before you make statements like this. The stance against TV was one of the reasons I joined the org so when it changes that stance it is worth me leaving over.
If its a stance you want...
How about the stance against video? When video first came out, the UPC took a stance against. That later changed. Since you are still here, apparently that change didn't bother you.
Furthermore, it is actually video capability that caused many to see the various ministry opportunities and/or enhancements opening up due to video.
It is also video capability and the allowance of such that caused many pastors, including one of my former pastors, to become concerned that things were beginning to slide down a slippery slope and there would be no stopping it.
And what about some of these "other" stances?
Like "worldly amusements" for example. The UPC took a stance against such long long ago. In writing, it has not changed. In reality, it has changed.
Same goes for professional sports which included not only sports on the adult level but organized sports in grade school - school teams. First little league was deemed as OK. Some even said it was good for kids to be involved and that they obtained valuable life experiences from it. Then it moved on to Jr. High and then to High School. Whats next? College? The NFL, NBA, etc.?
While I understand your personal issue in regards to TV and thats your choice, I have to ask, why pick on that one issue? What about these other things? Are you only UltraCon in regards to TV?
__________________
"The only thing worse than murder in the desert is to know where the water is and not tell it!"
How about the stance against video? When video first came out, the UPC took a stance against. That later changed. Since you are still here, apparently that change didn't bother you.
He's too young to remember a time when videos didn't exist......LOL!
Quote:
Furthermore, it is actually video capability that caused many to see the various ministry opportunities and/or enhancements opening up due to video.
It is also video capability and the allowance of such that caused many pastors, including one of my former pastors, to become concerned that things were beginning to slide down a slippery slope and there would be no stopping it.
And what about some of these "other" stances?
Like "worldly amusements" for example. The UPC took a stance against such long long ago. In writing, it has not changed. In reality, it has changed.
Same goes for professional sports which included not only sports on the adult level but organized sports in grade school - school teams. First little league was deemed as OK. Some even said it was good for kids to be involved and that they obtained valuable life experiences from it. Then it moved on to Jr. High and then to High School. Whats next? College? The NFL, NBA, etc.?
Don't forget that golfing is ok.
Quote:
While I understand your personal issue in regards to TV and thats your choice, I have to ask, why pick on that one issue? What about these other things? Are you only UltraCon in regards to TV?
And such a petty issue too, considering the problems with the internet that have permeated even the ministry today.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Mizpeh, thanks for the comments. I have already made my mind up that if the RES passes then I will leave. We have a circle of fellowship set up already so we won't be out there as a lone ranger. There will be life after the UPC. Besides that, the UPC is not the church. It is possible to be apart of the body of Christ without being in the UPC.
I would at least hope that most people would see a difference between going to school online and watching TV. I can't think of anybody that has a TV that "just" watches educational videos. You may be the first but I just don't believe this is the case with everybody. There are discussions on here about R Rated movies, PG-13 movies, TV shows called wifeswap, and people that have south park avatars. How can you expect people to stop at just educational? We preach against TV period. As far as YouTube goes, I don't watch it. I don't watch preaching videos either. I try to stay consistant in what I believe. Others may not but I happen to agree with Larry Booker's view of the internet as a library. I pull from it only what I want and NOTHING more. I know there is evil at my fingertips but I have set up a safety net to keep me from those things. It's obvious that the TV watchers have no intention at just watching educational given some of the movie topics found on AFF.
Yes you can be in the church and not be UPC...my question then is, can't you be in the church and still BE UPC? Why leave? No resolution requires you to have a TV, watch TV or advertise ON TV. Since the UPC is NOT the church, then how can a resolution passing affect you or your local congregation? Aren't we stronger as a whole than we are divided into still smaller groups? There are so many souls to win all over the world and so many missions to support financially. Do you think you will win more souls after leaving?
Do you think there are other great things about the UPC other than your disapproval of allowing TV for advertisements and reaching the lost? Why throw the baby out with the bath water over that?
BTW the argument about TV and educational stuff is about as good a one saying that it's unlikely OPs only use the internet for education and not for other things....like watching worldly videos or listening to music or looking at pictures they should not. In fact you can do everything you can do with a TV now on the Internet and it will just grow even more inclusive.
What we need is a church whose members are wise and discerning about those things. Educate this church HOW to resist temptation and things that hinder their walk rather than dictate contradictory decrees that just makes us look dumb....TV evil, Internet not. We are in the world every day, but not of the world. At any time in our day of life we can succumb to the world and the things of the world without a TV in our living rooms.
The problem with most people and TV is not the TV itself but that they never truly learned to walk hand in hand with Jesus and allowed to be led themselves by the word and His Spirit
You say "How can you expect people to just stop at education"....do they just stop at education on the internet? Can you just stop at education? What about print and radio? Do we just stop at education on radio or magazines?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Yes you can be in the church and not be UPC...my question then is, can't you be in the church and still BE UPC? Why leave? No resolution requires you to have a TV, watch TV or advertise ON TV. Since the UPC is NOT the church, then how can a resolution passing affect you or your local congregation? Aren't we stronger as a whole than we are divided into still smaller groups? There are so many souls to win all over the world and so many missions to support financially. Do you think you will win more souls after leaving?
Do you think there are other great things about the UPC other than your disapproval of allowing TV for advertisements and reaching the lost? Why throw the baby out with the bath water over that?
BTW the argument about TV and educational stuff is about as good a one saying that it's unlikely OPs only use the internet for education and not for other things....like watching worldly videos or listening to music or looking at pictures they should not. In fact you can do everything you can do with a TV now on the Internet and it will just grow even more inclusive.
What we need is a church whose members are wise and discerning about those things. Educate this church HOW to resist temptation and things that hinder their walk rather than dictate contradictory decrees that just makes us look dumb....TV evil, Internet not. We are in the world every day, but not of the world. At any time in our day of life we can succumb to the world and the things of the world without a TV in our living rooms.
The problem with most people and TV is not the TV itself but that they never truly learned to walk hand in hand with Jesus and allowed to be led themselves by the word and His Spirit
You say "How can you expect people to just stop at education"....do they just stop at education on the internet? Can you just stop at education? What about print and radio? Do we just stop at education on radio or magazines?
Excellent points.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Speaking of the Youth Congress what is this all about?
Apostolic Idol
Once again, the Pentecostal Music Association offered 15 talented people/groups the opportunity to win $1,000 and win a recording contract (thanks to Zion Recording and Daywind Records). The winners were:
Group: Exodus (1st); Fallen Chains (2nd); Total Praise (3rd)
Male: Mark Crowder; Bryce Allard; Ryan Johns
Female: Don’t shoot us, but the winner in this category garnered so much applause we couldn’t hear the name! (Someone send it to us!); Ashley Webster; Kristen Sharp
The UPC NEVER made a stance against these things. Pastors may have preached against them at their local church but the UPC NEVER made a stand against them. Do your homework before you make statements like this. The stance against TV was one of the reasons I joined the org so when it changes that stance it is worth me leaving over.
The UPC DID indeed have a stance against Video and changed over it. They allowed the use of Video. BTW what difference does it make? I never understood that. This is an organization of churches that believe in Acts 2:38 and Oneness and living a Holy Life...why do you have to join a church that forces on everyone an issue like no TV? Why does the organization HAVE to force that on ALL members in order to be a part of the organization at all? Can't you decide for yourself not to watch TV or use it to reach out? Or can't you decide for yourself to preach against TV to your local congregation without an organization telling you to?
If you leave what does that do? How does staying or leaving affect you personally or your congregation because an organization decides to make advertisement on TV NOT an organizational sin? The resolution does NOT force you to accept TV nor your congregation nor anyone elses...Isn't it then really about control? If an organization is no longer forcing everyone else to be against TV (even though in their concious they are NOT really against TV) then I will take my toys and go?
We can have an official resolution till hell freezes over and it will NOT make everyone believe like you do...or is that it? Is the plan that as long as we try to force them to believe like us the they will want to leave and the org will belong to us hardliners? Why can't we all just unify over Faith, being against Sin, Acts 2:38 and Oneness and spend more time reaching the lost than fighting each other?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Yes you can be in the church and not be UPC...my question then is, can't you be in the church and still BE UPC? Why leave? No resolution requires you to have a TV, watch TV or advertise ON TV. Since the UPC is NOT the church, then how can a resolution passing affect you or your local congregation? Aren't we stronger as a whole than we are divided into still smaller groups? There are so many souls to win all over the world and so many missions to support financially. Do you think you will win more souls after leaving?
Why does it matter to you rather I leave or not. I have no hard feelings against the UPC. I got the Holy Ghost in a UPC church my most memorable times with God have been in a UPC church. I simply disagree with where I think the org is going and for that reason I will align myself with other men and churches of the same principles that I believe and that we preach. I don't think that the RES will affect me at all. Our members don't watch TV so they'll never see the ads. I don't think we'll be any weaker becuse of us leaving. We pray a lot of people through so I don't think that's going to change. We support missions through the IAm system and not through Faith Promise so we'll continue to do that. I ask, why then should I stay and support the org?
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