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09-26-2007, 02:10 PM
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but made himself of no reputation
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: middle Atlantic region
Posts: 2,091
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bro easty,
you have likely subscribed the wrong motive to me and I certainly have played nice.
but thanks again for the counsels on how to respond.
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Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath [James 1:19]
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09-26-2007, 02:20 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbpew
Miz,
I acknowledge my lack of response to your last two posts that included questions to me.
I will commit to rejoin the thread and respond ASAP after my normal close of business (5:30pm EDT).
I think your posting would be a basis for many AFF'ers to share their understanding of the former and the new has been established.
One specific point that I would very much value your direct reply to:
Q. Do you Mizpeh, believe that a pastor sits in Moses' seat concerning matters involving local/city assemblies?
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After reading this thread, I'm not sure what I believe on this issue. I think your thoughts are one extreme and UC thoughts would be the other extreme. I will probably end up in the middle somewhere. 
Moses was the lawgiver and the scribes and pharisees sit in Moses seat as pertaining to the law but we aren't under the law of Moses.
I have always thought of pastors as shepherds of the flock of God who are to feed the flock the word of God.
Jer 3: 15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
Did God ever want a king (ruler) over his people in the OT, I don't think so, I think He allowed it as He allowed a bill of divorce. Leaders in the church should not be lords over God's inheritance. I like your word, guide.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE....  My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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09-26-2007, 02:24 PM
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Step By Step - Day By Day
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
After reading this thread, I'm not sure what I believe on this issue. I think your thoughts are one extreme and UC thoughts would be the other extreme. I will probably end up in the middle somewhere.
Moses was the lawgiver and the scribes and pharisees sit in Moses seat as pertaining to the law but we aren't under the law of Moses.
I have always thought of pastors as shepherds of the flock of God who are to feed the flock the word of God.
Jer 3: 15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
Did God ever want a king (ruler) over his people, I don't think so, I think He allowed it as He allowed a bill of divorce. Leaders in the church should not be lords over God's inheritance. I like your word, guide. |
I agree with you Mizpeh.
In regard to the part of your post I bolded, that's about where you end up if you take the best of both CS's posts and tb's posts.
__________________
Smiles & Blessings....
~Felicity Welsh~
(surname courtesy of Jim Yohe)
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09-26-2007, 03:37 PM
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but made himself of no reputation
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: middle Atlantic region
Posts: 2,091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
After reading this thread, I'm not sure what I believe on this issue. I think your thoughts are one extreme and UC thoughts would be the other extreme. I will probably end up in the middle somewhere.
Moses was the lawgiver and the scribes and pharisees sit in Moses seat as pertaining to the law but we aren't under the law of Moses.
I have always thought of pastors as shepherds of the flock of God who are to feed the flock the word of God.
Jer 3: 15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
Did God ever want a king (ruler) over his people in the OT, I don't think so, I think He allowed it as He allowed a bill of divorce. Leaders in the church should not be lords over God's inheritance. I like your word, guide. |
Miz, when CS or GL come back maybe you can share where a middle ground exists in OBEYING RULERS.
Not obeying rulers is rebellion.
If it is not rebellion, they are not your rulers.
You either have RULERS or you do not have RULERS in Christ.
Even if your's happen to be nice, friendly, patient, grandfatherly-type rulers, they are still rulers.
Rulers have all authority over their subjects in the realm of their Rule.
__________________
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath [James 1:19]
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09-26-2007, 03:52 PM
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Non-Resident Redneck
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbpew
Miz, when CS or GL come back maybe you can share where a middle ground exists in OBEYING RULERS.
Not obeying rulers is rebellion.
If it is not rebellion, they are not your rulers.
You either have RULERS or you do not have RULERS in Christ.
Even if your's happen to be nice, friendly, patient, grandfatherly-type rulers, they are still rulers.
Rulers have all authority over their subjects in the realm of their Rule.
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You are mixing definitions.
Obeying them that have the rule doesn't make a ruler in the sense you are describing--an extreme absolute monarch.
The Bibilical "rule" must be defined Biblically--it speaks of servant leadership that saints voluntarily submit to, with the condition that the leader is following Christ.
You are taking the phrase, defining it in a way the Scripture does not, and then speaking against that.
I think that fits the description oflogical fallacy.
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09-26-2007, 04:02 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coonskinner
You are mixing definitions.
Obeying them that have the rule doesn't make a ruler in the sense you are describing--an extreme absolute monarch.
The Bibilical "rule" must be defined Biblically--it speaks of servant leadership that saints voluntarily submit to, with the condition that the leader is following Christ.
You are taking the phrase, defining it in a way the Scripture does not, and then speaking against that.
I think that fits the description oflogical fallacy. |
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09-26-2007, 04:02 PM
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but made himself of no reputation
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: middle Atlantic region
Posts: 2,091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coonskinner
You are mixing definitions.
Obeying them that have the rule doesn't make a ruler in the sense you are describing--an extreme absolute monarch.
The Bibilical "rule" must be defined Biblically--it speaks of servant leadership that saints voluntarily submit to, with the condition that the leader is following Christ.
You are taking the phrase, defining it in a way the Scripture does not, and then speaking against that.
I think that fits the description oflogical fallacy. |
and here I thought it was just about what I was being asked for when prompted repeatedly for "what part of OBEY them that have the RULE over you, don't you understand?" 
If you can uncouple OBEY and RULER, more power to ya.
btw, CS,
please don't let this "re-re-re-fryed" topic toss a blanket on any of the excitement of being in Tampa. You and LCS just enjoy yourself, Lord willing, we'll be hear when you get back.
__________________
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath [James 1:19]
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09-26-2007, 04:07 PM
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Non-Resident Redneck
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbpew
and here I thought it was just about what I was being asked for when prompted repeatedly for "what part of OBEY them that have the RULE over you, don't you understand?"
If you can uncouple OBEY and RULER, more power to ya.
btw, CS,
please don't let this "re-re-re-fryed" topic toss a blanket on any of the excitement of being in Tampa. You and LCS just enjoy yourself, Lord willing, we'll be hear when you get back. |
Frankly, I don't care for large cities.
I am here for two reasons--to participate in the business of the God themed man club I belong to.... 
And because my wife likes to come.
And the Bible is where we got the terms "obey" and "rule."
That doesn't mean mindless obedience to just anybody.
There are qualifications.
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09-26-2007, 04:13 PM
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The LORD will fight for you
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Lone Star State
Posts: 1,753
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Has Rico made a decision yet?
__________________
Isaiah 53:5: "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."(KJV)
"God sends no one away empty except those who are full of themselves." Dwight L. Moody
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09-26-2007, 04:13 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity
I agree with you Mizpeh.
In regard to the part of your post I bolded, that's about where you end up if you take the best of both CS's posts and tb's posts.
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I think of CS more as a conservative and not a UC. So he would be a little right of the middle but not far right like the poster, UltraCon. 
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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