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  #31  
Old 09-28-2007, 09:05 PM
redeemedcynic84
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Originally Posted by James Griffin View Post
There are few things more detrimental to a Christian walk than having a television in the house. I have no problem preaching against it. Even though watching TV will not send you to hell per se.
if watching a tv won't send you to hell than there are many things more detrimental to a Christian's walk than owning a television...

Seriously, keep your yeas yea and your nays nay... If its wrong, say its wrong... If it isn't actually wrong, don't say its wrong because you think your people are too weak or stupid to know better...

The modern church is so weak because we have preachers who preach against so much that they keep thier saints from growing, and standards is one of the biggest things that hinder the modern saint from growing...
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  #32  
Old 09-28-2007, 09:08 PM
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James Griffin James Griffin is offline
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Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84 View Post
NO!!

God is the only one who can raise the bar higher than the minimum...

Don't you realize that a big part of Jesus' issue with the Pharisees was that they added to the "bare minimum" that God gave the people and made that extra stuff a requirement, too??
With all due respect I believe you are confusing what I am saying. There is nothing wrong with a Christian having high standards. Surely you do not feel that we should try and do everything we "can get away with" and still be saved. Once again there are some things a Christian should eschew even if "allowed" under the law of grace. The other side of the coin is of course those who would consider standards of a pastor to equate to salvation, which is certainly adding extra-Bibilical burdens.
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  #33  
Old 09-28-2007, 09:10 PM
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James Griffin James Griffin is offline
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Originally Posted by marthaolivia View Post
Hey....I'm not a "sir". (Marthaolivia!) Sorry if I came across as such. (smiles)
Please forgive my faux pas madam
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  #34  
Old 09-28-2007, 09:11 PM
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marthaolivia marthaolivia is offline
Me-Nearly 50 years ago


 
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Forgiven...See how much I have matured in the 4 years I have been in Church...
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  #35  
Old 09-28-2007, 09:24 PM
redeemedcynic84
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Originally Posted by James Griffin View Post
With all due respect I believe you are confusing what I am saying. There is nothing wrong with a Christian having high standards. Surely you do not feel that we should try and do everything we "can get away with" and still be saved. Once again there are some things a Christian should eschew even if "allowed" under the law of grace. The other side of the coin is of course those who would consider standards of a pastor to equate to salvation, which is certainly adding extra-Bibilical burdens.
when I hear the word "Standards" I think of preached-from-the-pulpit rules that are demanded be followed on some level...

not more "personal convictions" which I think are great...

if you feel that you should never have a drink of alcohol, GOD BLESS YOU!!

But just don't tell me I can't, because that isn't Bible...

ya know? (note: that was an example, not trying to turn this into an alcohol debate, I just used the first thing that came to my head that people use to describe this paradigm...)
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  #36  
Old 09-28-2007, 09:30 PM
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James Griffin James Griffin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84 View Post
when I hear the word "Standards" I think of preached-from-the-pulpit rules that are demanded be followed on some level...

not more "personal convictions" which I think are great...

if you feel that you should never have a drink of alcohol, GOD BLESS YOU!!

But just don't tell me I can't, because that isn't Bible...

ya know? (note: that was an example, not trying to turn this into an alcohol debate, I just used the first thing that came to my head that people use to describe this paradigm...)
I agree with what you are saying, somehow we need to correctly understand that standards are the pastor's personal convictions for his church or an organization's etc. And as such they should be high especially for Apostolics, but they should not be confused with the plan of salvation, and be the cause of such disunity as was demonstrated today.
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  #37  
Old 09-28-2007, 09:31 PM
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commonsense commonsense is offline
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Originally Posted by marthaolivia View Post
If I remember correctly, fifty years ago, (and yes I was around then!) at least in UPC & ALJC, it was a sin to watch or own a tv, to go to the movies, for women to wear slacks, to dress out for gym at school, to dance, to go to ball games, to "arch" your eyebrows, for women to cut or trim their hair, to wear open toed shoes, to wear any make-up (except for Vaseline), to go swimming in anything other than your everyday clothes, to listen to certain radio stations and there are probably some more deadly sins that I forgot to mention.
My question is.."Did God change His mind about these things through the years or were they man-made from the beginning?"
I was raised in a UPC home and UPC church. I took my first steps at GC 1949.

This is repetitious but I feel it’s necessary to establish the beliefs in our home.. My dad experienced Pentecost in 1931 ala Acts 2:38 in MN. My mother came to the truth in 1934, rcv’d the HG, and was baptized in 1935 in WI; ** they met in 1946. The UPC was new but their walk with God was not!!

In our household the Church was always the #1 priority. That being said….my hair was cut; after school I took off my dress (remember all the little girls wore dresses to school in the 50’s!) and put on play clothes,…slacks; from 3rd gr on we had to wear gym suits for gym class. Royal blue, snapped, one piece shorts sets…like a jumpsuit….they were not cute or fashionable even then. I still have my JR HI gymsuit.(that’s a scary thought) Our house had a TV and radio. My father was the biggest sports fan you ever saw. He loved to watch or listen to any sport …but was a HUGE fan of the Vikings and TWINS.

Make up and dancing were definite taboos…but my mother did not think it necessary for me to be excused from the square dancing segment we had in 6th grade. In general my mother and father loved God, loved the church, their pastor etc….but they both possessed that rare quality called commonsense. I don’t thing it even occurred to them to forbid some of the current legalistic rulings.
I don’t recall anything on eyebrows; never heard anything about open toed shoes; it rarely got warm enough to go swimming, but on a few occasions I did go---in a swimsuit. The summers I was 8 & 9 I even went to a regular secular camp. This is where I first took swimming lessons and played ping pong.
I was in Brownies and Girl Scouts.
In essence none of these things were issues…not preached from the pulpit. And we had good services, great revivals and the power of God fell on us all.


This is off topic but when in her 70’s someone asked my mother about a particular legalistic direction from the pulpit and she looked surprised, as far as she was concerned, it didn’t apply to her (in that she didn’t do or go to the forbidden anyway).
She did tell us that in Chicago in the 30’s where she attended church…amusement parks, bowling, roller skating etc were all preached against as being worldly, so when she walked to catch the streetcar she crossed the street rather than walk near a popular amusement park….
She didn’t keep us from going to the church roller skating outing; we also had hay rides, sleigh rides etc, I went to these with church youth groups as well as with friends from school.

In JR HI I became aware that there were churches that did preach more strongly…ie hair had to be worn up, required to wear seamed hose (so they knew you hadn’t gone with bare legs…what would those old timers think if they saw the average church today? )) Anyway we knew there were stricter churches out there somewhere, but it wasn’t a problem for us in the “north”.

So while there were standards in our church << it was not the same as is taught today as requirements for living for God.
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Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing.
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  #38  
Old 09-28-2007, 09:31 PM
FRINGE_NUTTER FRINGE_NUTTER is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marthaolivia View Post
If I remember correctly, fifty years ago, (and yes I was around then!) at least in UPC & ALJC, it was a sin to watch or own a tv, to go to the movies, for women to wear slacks, to dress out for gym at school, to dance, to go to ball games, to "arch" your eyebrows, for women to cut or trim their hair, to wear open toed shoes, to wear any make-up (except for Vaseline), to go swimming in anything other than your everyday clothes, to listen to certain radio stations and there are probably some more deadly sins that I forgot to mention.
My question is.."Did God change His mind about these things through the years or were they man-made from the beginning?"

Please do not think I am being disrespectful but I have never heard Vaseline referred to as make-up. Does that mean if I rub this on my grandchild's body (didn't say where) I am using make-up on him? Never heard that one.
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  #39  
Old 09-28-2007, 09:31 PM
redeemedcynic84
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I agree with what you are saying, somehow we need to correctly understand that standards are the pastor's personal convictions for his church or an organization's etc. And as such they should be high especially for Apostolics, but they should not be confused with the plan of salvation, and be the cause of such disunity as was demonstrated today.
I don't think a bishop (now called pastor) has the right to impose his personal standards on the rest of the local assembly...

point blank, the Bible gives no indication of that kind of power given to a bishop... none, at all....
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  #40  
Old 09-28-2007, 09:34 PM
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marthaolivia marthaolivia is offline
Me-Nearly 50 years ago


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Griffin View Post
Please forgive my faux pas madam
I'm actually not a madam either.. (smiles)
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