Water baptism, can you agree with this statement?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Encryptus

But by applying your logic to your argument you would need to get rebaptised in water every time you sin or you will go to hell.

No, after we are initially born again of the water in the name of the Lord, if we sin according to 1 John 1:9 all we have to do is confess and the blood of Jesus Christ will wash away that sin. The only ones who were baptized twice were those who were not baptized in Jesus name the first time.

BTW, 1 John is written to Christians, those who have already obeyed the commands of Acts 2:38 by faith in Christ.

[Scott Hutchinson]

All I can say is that God is a fair and just judge.
I teach and preach what I feel is correct,but only God can put someone in or put someone out of His Kingdom, I can't give folks salvation.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I want my cake and I want to eat it as well. It is neither "Yes" nor "No" for me. I would probably take everything off topic in trying to explain why again, so suffice it to say I choose neither of the offered selections.

I do agree that salvation comes through faith and even our very best efforts to re-enact Calvary will not get us "saved." We are are saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God.

That being said, the efficacy of the gift of grace will be manifest in the lives of the believers, including their obedience to the NT teachings, not limited to baptism.

Too which I agree Elder, He that endures to the end the same shall be saved.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Encryptus

Too deep for me Dan, care to elaborate?

According to the Sacramentalist Baptismal Regenerationist ... baptism remits/washes away/blots out sin ....

While the sins are forgiven at repentance .... the old man ... body of sin ... is still hanging out ... like a growth... that only a properly administered water baptism can circumcise ...

it's base on faulty reasoning of what circumcision means throughout scripture and poor hermeneutics and understanding of Colossians 2:11-12

One writer refutes this false teaching as follows.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Doctrines/Baptismal%20Regeneration/bap_reg-refuted.htm

In Col. 2:11-12, we read, "In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him, through faith in the working of God who raised Him from the dead"

In the Old Testament, circumcision was the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant. It was a minor surgical operation that involved the cutting away of the flesh. Circumcision symbolized death to the flesh by the "cutting away of sins", so in New Testament symbolism, it refers to spiritual circumcision. "Made without hands" meant that no human effort was involved, rather, it is God's work The circumcision refers to His death, meaning when one believes their sin is cut off. It also relates to Christ's death which He Himself called a "baptism". This term did not mean a water baptism, but one of death and burial (Romans 2:29): "Circumcision is that of the heart in the Spirit, not in the letter. . .", which the ceremony of baptism depicts. The Bible clearly teaches that circumcision is a work of the Spirit which circumcises since it is God’s work. This spiritual circumcision is the invisible work that baptism symbolizes.

Again, baptism points back to the work of Christ since it is the circumcision of Christ (not baptism) that achieves this for a believer. (In the same way, Rom. 6 refers to describing the occurrence of the Gospel.)

In the New Testament, we find that baptism is the sign or seal of the New Covenant, and functions like a substitute for circumcision of the Old Covenant. For the Abrahamic Covenant (Gen. 17:21) it was mandatory. Under the Mosaic Covenant (Ex. 12:48), it was to show submission to the Law of Moses. Christ commissioned His disciples to go, teach, make disciples, and baptize. Just as circumcision was required of proselytes converting to Judaism, in a like manner, baptism was required as a visible mark of entrance into the New Covenant.

These two rites have similar meanings. Circumcision was characterized by a cutting away of sin and a change of heart. Baptism is a picture of the washing away of sin.

"Baptism did away with the need for circumcision because it signified the union of the believer with Christ, thereby cutting off the old nature. A lesser circumcision has been replaced by a greater circumcision. The spiritual circumcision promised under the Old Testament Covenant has become a reality under the New Covenant through baptism". (George BeasIey-Murray, Baptism in the New Testament).

Again, baptism is only a visible symbol of what occurred by the previous reality, which is the real substance. It points back to Christ.


---------------------------------------------

What my sacramentalist brethren don't realize is that their Catholic forefathers concur with their position:

Cyril of Jerusalem

"Since man is of a twofold nature, composed of body and soul, the purification also is twofold: the corporeal for the corporeal and the incorporeal for the incorporeal. The water cleanses the body, and the Spirit seals the soul. . . . When you go down into the water, then, regard not simply the water, but look for salvation through the power of the Spirit. For without both you cannot attain to perfection. It is not I who says this, but the Lord Jesus Christ, who has the power in this matter. And he says, ‘Unless a man be born again,’ and he adds the words ‘of water and of the Spirit,’ ‘he cannot enter the kingdom of God.’ He that is baptized with water, but is not found worthy of the Spirit, does not receive the grace in perfection. Nor, if a man be virtuous in his deeds, but does not receive the seal by means of the water, shall he enter the kingdom of heaven. A bold saying, but not mine; for it is Jesus who has declared it" (Catechetical Lectures 3:4 [A.D. 350]).

[QUOTEAmbrose of Milan


"Although we are baptized with water and the Spirit, the latter is much superior to the former, and is not therefore to be separated from the Father and the Son. There are, however, many who, because we are baptized with water and the Spirit, think that there is no difference in the offices of water and the Spirit, and therefore think that they do not differ in nature. Nor do they observe that we are buried in the element of water that we may rise again renewed by the Spirit. For in the water is the representation of death, in the Spirit is the pledge of life, that the body of sin may die through the water, which encloses the body as it were in a kind of tomb, that we, by the power of the Spirit, may be renewed from the death of sin, being born again in God" (The Holy Spirit 1:6[75–76] [A.D. 381]). [/quote]

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

I voted "NO". Baptism is essential to salvation. One must be born of the water and the spirit to enter into the kingdom of God. John 3. It is just a Christian thing to do if you are kind to those who disagree with you!

Blessings, Rhoni

Good post.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Darcie

That is not what I mean and you know it...

Have you read my brother's signature?

When I repent the blood of Jesus washes my sins, (that's what we sing, no?)
I die daily and apply that blood, daily!
getting baptized is because of bedience...I receive the gifts of the Spirit as God see's fit to give me.

The key word!oloroid

[Encryptus]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

No, after we are initially born again of the water in the name of the Lord, if we sin according to 1 John 1:9 all we have to do is confess and the blood of Jesus Christ will wash away that sin. The only ones who were baptized twice were those who were not baptized in Jesus name the first time.

BTW, 1 John is written to Christians, those who have already obeyed the commands of Acts 2:38 by faith in Christ.

then why would not the same logic apply to your response to Dan A about having to be refilled every time?

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

You are welcome. I believe that John 3:3 & 5 bring out the necessity of baptism. Jesus even modeled the behavior as our example. I was taught that the word of God does nto contradict itself and you must take all the word applied together. If you do this then you will see no other way. From the John 3:3 & 5, 3:16, Matt. 28:19, Acts 2:38, Acts 10 [forgot the verse] and many others. In ordeer to accept God's gift of salvation you must do it His way...through baptism in His name [born of the water], and the infilling of his spirit [born of the spirit aeb speaking in other tongues]. Any man or woman trying to get in any other way is a thief and a robber.

Blessings, Rhoni

YOU GO GIRL!!!!!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Who re-enacts? Its called obedience, or do you not believe in obedience?

Your presentation of the Gospel does ..

most Sacramentalists say that our response to the the Gospel is the Gospel ... and it's necessary to re-enact each step ... of HIS DEATH ... HIS BURIAL ... HIS RESURRECTION TO BE SAVED

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I understand that there is no virtue in H2O, and water in itself can't forgive sin, but I can't do away with Mark.16:16 either.
I believe it's God's will for all people to repent,be baptized in Jesus Name and Be Spirit Filled and live a clean life.

But elder, that would require..........OBEDIENCE!