Why Some Question the Apostolic Doctrine

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I remember sitting at a dinner table while my pastor slurped oysters. I declined the appetizer and we went on with the meal (I grew up on a sea coast where it was often unhealthy to eat the shellfish uncooked so I never took a liking for those things).

The converstion turned to news items and our Godly view of this wicked world. Several people mentioned how that homosexuality was an "abomination in the eyes of God forever" and cited texts from Leviticus. Also, the pastor's wife pointed out the "abomination" of a woman wearing "that which pertaineth to the man."

Now, I look to the NT for understanding on these issues and am pretty conservative. But I just sat there quietly while the old man kept slurpping his oysters. We all shared boiled shrimp as a part of the meal. "Abominations forever?"

Ah yes the abominamble shrimp LOL

Few realize the abomination in Deut 22:5 was the idoltry commited when they danced before their gods to seek their favor as they embarked on war.

In these rituals that the heathen nations around Israel performed, the woman would dress in the armaments and shields of their husbands and they asked the favor of their gods.

Moses in his writing was warning Israel not to partake in any kind of similiar going off to war ritual. Those that do so are an abgomination to God.

It was NEVER what they wore...it was they did (idoltrous worship) that was THE ABOMINATION.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by philjones

Pianoman,

I am personally quite conservative... but I DO play golf. and I have never denied you as my brother in Christ or questioned your salvation.

Have a great time with Dan the Man tonight!

Oh My! Do you realize you just slipped from ultra conservative, past conservative, to conservative-moderate????

[RandyWayne]

It is so very important to occasionally try to forget everything you have EVER been taught or told and look at scripture like it is the first time seeing it. It can be amazing what you see!

As an amateur magician I marvel at how some tricks can be pulled off. I keep thinking "they are seeing right through this!" but if done with confidence, the people see exactly what you want them to see! Such is the power of Psychology. People start to interpret versus and the bible as a whole the way they have always been taught to, NEVER seeing that it often clearly says. Part of this is also reinforced by the doctrine that questioning itself is a trick of the devil, making people afraid to.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

I love Epley's saying, " first the standards go , then goes the doctrine."

It is so true!

When I first began a search of scripture that would back up all the (Standards) I have heard preached. My discovery was that the scriptures we had been told meant such and such, did not mean that at all to the people those words were originally written to in the original language.

Once God shows you how wrong we have been to impose and enforce our ideaolgy upon people, when you see we have been so wrong in our intrepretation of our pet "holiness" scriptres then you begin to ask, and rightly so, WHAT ELSE have I been taught that was in error ??

And that my friend why so many have questioned "apostolic" doctrine.

I agree 100%. I think it is healthy to take a look at what you believe to see if it is right on every issue. This is true in politics and the same is true in the church world. The Bible says don't go by your own understanding, but the Bible also says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. So where is the middle ground?

You must first understand what you believe in order to believe it. I do not mean understand as in being able to wrap you mind around it, but understand that what you believe or what you feel is reality, like healings for example. If you start following God and you believe the same today as you did when you first started you have not grown toward Him. Foundations are important! If you are a home owner it is a very important thing to have your homes foundation examined because there may be cracks, soft spots and places that have been washed away by rain water. If the foundation is not sound then the house may be unstable. Ask people in CA that there homes slide down a cliff two weeks ago they will tell you. I do loans on peoples homes for a living. I almost always get calls about messed up foundations and people need money to fix it. Some homes foundations are beyond repair. My questions are, how shall we fix our foundations? Are our foundations beyond repair?

[NightOwl]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

It is so very important to occasionally try to forget everything you have EVER been taught or told and look at scripture like it is the first time seeing it. It can be amazing what you see!

As an amateur magician I marvel at how some tricks can be pulled off. I keep thinking "they are seeing right through this!" but if done with confidence, the people see exactly what you want them to see! Such is the power of Psychology. People start to interpret versus and the bible as a whole the way they have always been taught to, NEVER seeing that it often clearly says. Part of this is also reinforced by the doctrine that questioning itself is a trick of the devil, making people afraid to.

Thats true, but then where does that leave those that are questioning things, if they do not feel free to say "Hey I am not sure about this"

[RandyWayne]

Thats where their own free will must come into play. They NEED to question even if they are told not to. Even if it means going outside their religious circles.

[NightOwl]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Thats where their own free will must come into play. They NEED to question even if they are told not to. Even if it means going outside their religious circles.

True and though it may be hard it is what we may need to do to get answers

[anapko]

Originally Posted by Sandra

First ,I want to clarify this thread and say, I am NOT saying the Apostolic Doctrine is wrong.

This is something I have heard in the past 10 years from preachers who have left the UPC.

Some are shakey on the Doctrine, they say if the UPC was wrong in area's like outward appearance and other man made beliefs, this is cause for us to take another look at the Doctrine.

I know many when they leave say " We are like the UPC in doctrine but that other legalistic stuff we have done away with."
By saying this it really helps dealing with family still in the UPC.

I don't say Apostolic doctrine is wrong, but man-made attachments to doctrine is wrong. When a person comes into church he comes as he is and the Saving Christ cleanses him. When I received the Holy Ghost, it was the most freeing experience I ever had. But when attachments were placed on my life (30 years ago I heard it as "Don't do this, don't do that" policy) I found a burden that was hard to keep. May we be reminded that in Acts, the Apostles did not place an unrealistic burden on the Gentiles that the Apostles declared , "...neither we or our fathers could keep."

[Scott Hutchinson]

The Holy Ghost is for leading us into a relationship with Christ and not yokes of bondage.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Things like the oneness of God.
The importance of repentance ,following The Lord by being buried in His Name, and being Spirit Filled and living a lifestyle of progressive santification will never change.
The church though is culturally transverse.