Apostolic Summit - Tulsa, OK - Pastors are now receiving it.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Given that all of the first generation of OP pioneers were Trintarian and fellowshipped freely with Trinitarians;

and, given that in much of the country the "holiness standards" were not what they are today;

can you see why many would see the same things as you've described and call it a "return to their roots" and not an apostacy?

I am sure you do know the difference between going FORWARD and going BACKWARDS??????

The first generation were seeking for truth this generation is departing from the truth the pioneers were seeking and found.

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Given that all of the first generation of OP pioneers were Trintarian and fellowshipped freely with Trinitarians;

and, given that in much of the country the "holiness standards" were not what they are today;

can you see why many would see the same things as you've described and call it a "return to their roots" and not an apostacy?

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I am sure you do know the difference between going FORWARD and going BACKWARDS??????

The first generation were seeking for truth this generation is departing from the truth the pioneers were seeking and found.

At what point in the history of the american apostolic movement did the standards become the defining hallmark seeing that early on it was Jesus name baptism, and oneness... At what point for those seeking "more truth", did they decide that all the truth had finally been revealed?

Elder Epley, you mention the early forefathers of western apostolic movement were seekers of more truth... why is that shunned upon today? If conservative ministers claimed to be seekers of "more truth" today, they would instantly be shunned and frowned upon. At what point did the apostolic movement settle on the premise that all the truth had finally been revealed? Was it 1913 with the revelation of Jesus name baptism? 1916? 1945 with the formation of the UPCI? Or was it after that? At what point did seeking for "more truth" become tabu?

[JaneEyre]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

At what point in the history of the american apostolic movement did the standards become the defining hallmark seeing that early on it was Jesus name baptism, and oneness... At what point for those seeking "more truth", did they decide that all the truth had finally been revealed?

Elder Epley, you mention the early forefathers of western apostolic movement were seekers of more truth... why is that shunned upon today? If conservative ministers claimed to be seekers of "more truth" today, they would instantly be shunned and frowned upon. At what point did the apostolic movement settle on the premise that all the truth had finally been revealed? Was it 1913 with the revelation of Jesus name baptism? 1916? 1945 with the formation of the UPCI? Or was it after that? At what point did seeking for "more truth" become tabu?

Aren't you supposed to be stuck inside of Mobile with the Memphis blues again?

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

[QUOTE=BobDylan;296925]At what point in the history of the american apostolic movement did the standards become the defining hallmark seeing that early on it was Jesus name baptism, and oneness... At what point for those seeking "more truth", did they decide that all the truth had finally been revealed?
[QUOTE]


You do know the origins of Pentecostalism were a result of the Methodist/Nazerene HOLINESS movement of the late 19th century right?

So for the real old paths we should be Methodists! I do like methods...

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I am sure you do know the difference between going FORWARD and going BACKWARDS??????

The first generation were seeking for truth this generation is departing from the truth the pioneers were seeking and found.

What makes you think you've arrived? I see the the generation prior to this as being a bunch of revisionists who have actually been doing much to deceive "this generation." We ("this generation") have been lied to by our elders. We've watched them actually burn old family pictures to hide the change in "holiness standards." We've caught them lying about their elders and covering up not only their own sin but horrible crimes.

How is that "going FORWARD?" It sounds like some sort of purge took place and now, like Stalin did, they've been trying to pencil people out of the old pictures. It's a scam, Elder. They've been deceiving us.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by pelathais

What makes you think you've arrived? I see the the generation prior to this as being a bunch of revisionists who have actually been doing much to deceive "this generation." We ("this generation") have been lied to by our elders. We've watched them actually burn old family pictures to hide the change in "holiness standards." We've caught them lying about their elders and covering up not only their own sin but horrible crimes.
How is that "going FORWARD?" It sounds like some sort of purge took place and now, like Stalin did, they've been trying to pencil people out of the old pictures. It's a scam, Elder. They've been deceiving us.

???? WOW, to what are you alluding?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

At what point in the history of the american apostolic movement did the standards become the defining hallmark seeing that early on it was Jesus name baptism, and oneness... At what point for those seeking "more truth", did they decide that all the truth had finally been revealed?

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

You do know the origins of Pentecostalism were a result of the Methodist/Nazerene HOLINESS movement of the late 19th century right?

And... ???

Why all of the deception within the ranks of OP's about what the 1st generation taught? If they have "arrived" why the deception? Why the cover ups about our history?

Why were John Dearings's writings removed from the Required Reading for UPCI ministers without a word of discussion? Why don't we see a broad range of unedited photos from the General Conferences of the 1940's? Did all the women in leadership have uncut hair? No. Did many of them, including the GS's wife wear modest "costume" jewelry? Yes.

Does Elder Epley consider the standard "holiness" issues part of the revealed "truth" that the first generation was looking for? They did not. They were satisfied with their "personal holiness" but were seeking a greater Spiritual involvement in worship and prayer.

Was the first generation seeking for "truth" on the issue of television? Would the 2nd and 3rd generation be satisfied with the "revelation of truth" that came in 1977? Would they prefer the earlier status quo- a status quo that was returned by the vote in Tampa?

When we move back to the "Old Paths" of many of our elders, why do we see such bitterness and sour grapes from so many of them today?

Why is EE advocating a "progressive" line on some holiness issues but a regression on others? Isn't that just a form of "Cafeteria Christianity?"

If so, why not drop the whole "moving FORWARD" in order to get back to the "old paths" and just say, "I'm going to do whatever seems right in my own eyes..." At least then you aren't jumping around so much- forward, then back, forward, then back again... seems like some of these guys are more intent upon shaking people off of their trail than in making disciples. In some cases, I know for a fact that some are trying to shake their disciples off their trail.

No offense to you EE, I've lumped you together with a whole segment of our movement- perhaps unfairly. But I've watch the men of the previous generation of OP's do this silly dance all of my life. What gives? Why don't they just settle in on some core principles and stick with that?

[Raven]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

At what point in the history of the american apostolic movement did the standards become the defining hallmark seeing that early on it was Jesus name baptism, and oneness... At what point for those seeking "more truth", did they decide that all the truth had finally been revealed?

Elder Epley, you mention the early forefathers of western apostolic movement were seekers of more truth... why is that shunned upon today? If conservative ministers claimed to be seekers of "more truth" today, they would instantly be shunned and frowned upon. At what point did the apostolic movement settle on the premise that all the truth had finally been revealed? Was it 1913 with the revelation of Jesus name baptism? 1916? 1945 with the formation of the UPCI? Or was it after that? At what point did seeking for "more truth" become tabu?

Good questions BD! Some seem to feel that they are in full possession of all truth. Now, that's the rub!!!

Raven

[Raven]

Originally Posted by pelathais

What makes you think you've arrived? I see the the generation prior to this as being a bunch of revisionists who have actually been doing much to deceive "this generation." We ("this generation") have been lied to by our elders. We've watched them actually burn old family pictures to hide the change in "holiness standards." We've caught them lying about their elders and covering up not only their own sin but horrible crimes.

How is that "going FORWARD?" It sounds like some sort of purge took place and now, like Stalin did, they've been trying to pencil people out of the old pictures. It's a scam, Elder. They've been deceiving us.

Sorry to say it, my friend, but you have hit painfully close to the truth!

Raven