Standards protect inward holiness!!!!!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

And doesn't that put us in a mess?!! We wonder why the world is in such bad shape, and yet the church has trouble showing each other Christian kindness and charity. We have gotten so far off the message.

1000 amens!

How on earth clothing ever became the emphasis in people's opinions of Christianity is beyond me! GOD HELP US!!! When the bible is about God's love and being led of the Spirit and walking in the Spirit, and flesh versus Spirit, how on earth did anybody ever turn it into what we wear?????

[Jodiah91]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Well of course not, that is the beauty of maintaining compliance, it is the church people out in the Walmarts, Kmarts, grocery stores, and the mall who do the enforcing and subtle preaching for the pastor.

God forbid if folks from your church catch you wearing something you are comfortable in but that someone disapproves of.

Perhaps, although I can honestly say I have never experienced this. If I did, however, who cares? I don't have time to worry about what other 'saints' think I should or should not do. As long as I am okay with God, (first and foremost), my husband and my pastor, then I guess I'm not too concerned if sister so and so likes what I am wearing or not. .

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Jodiah91

Perhaps, although I can honestly say I have never experienced this. If I did, however, who cares? I don't have time to worry about what other 'saints' think I should or should not do. As long as I am okay with God, (first and foremost), my husband and my pastor, then I guess I'm not too concerned if sister so and so likes what I am wearing or not. .

Ah yes, but there may be things you feel are OK with GOD and your husband that if your pastor gets ahold of you could hear about it either in the office or from behind the pulpit.

God forbid you are ever standing in a mall waiting for a friend at or near the parfume counter, the next thing you know it is being reported you were shoping for makeup.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by mfblume

1000 amens!

How on earth clothing ever became the emphasis in people's opinions of Christianity is beyond me! GOD HELP US!!! When the bible is about God's love and being led of the Spirit and walking in the Spirit, and flesh versus Spirit, how on earth did anybody ever turn it into what we wear?????

My perspective is that a lot of these things started from a good place, with reasonable objectives and ideas attached to them. The problem comes from men with little education and less understanding taking them and somehow believing that they are incorporated into doctrine. Also, add a healthy dose of fear and control issues and you have created a monster.

That is why I am thankful that there are men who are willing to take the hard road, and question the status quo, and admit they are wrong if necessary, and stick to their guns if they feel like they need too. But if I have to hear another "bless God it was good enough for my daddy, it's good enough for me" messages, I will not be answerable for actions! LOL!!

[Enlightened]

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

The problem with your comments are you are writing them and not her. That is the problem with the idea, "traditional standards". Finally a label fitting what they are "traditional" not "biblical".

I should publish the off the record interviews that I have done over the years.

With many of the ministers and so called "Holiness Godly woman" you hold up as spiritual before the Lord.

Many say why are the standards only on the woman?

Now many of our men are wearing shorts and growing berds?

What is left for the man?

The only standard left on the man in the church today if he is doing anything in the church is for him to make sure "he keeps his woman in line".

My comments are not "Shove" as you have stated.

They are a shovel digging some abused ladies out and away from a one-sided slope that was to lead to God.

Why not live your existance in the way you do without having to ask why?

We are not liberated.

We are not carrying anything more around than the cross the Lord gave each of us to bare.....

Does anyone think that UPCI will ever drop some of these standards? How long does it take before pants are no longer considered immodest? I understand how "back in the day" it was considered rebellious for a women to wear pants. The line of thinking being, why would a woman want to dress like a man? But it's been quite a few years since then and there's a huge difference between male and female pants. Would a man go into a women's section at a department store to buy jeans?

I grew up UPC and through the years I've been in ultra conservative churches where I could not wear short sleeved shirts, to a more liberal church where I could actually wear shorts. I remember being shocked as a teenager at how members had televisions and went to ball games. It was looked down on and taught to be evil, but it was not preached heavily from the pulpit. So if TV is OK now, then are other items on the list of standards be dropped soon to be dropped?

That's my whole problem with the UPC standards. Why are we as men, deciding what's modest and what's not? And why is something that was wrong only a few years ago (TV) all of a sudden not so wrong anymore?

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

The answer is quite the opposite. In most cases it provides a FEELING (or an illusion) that the inward holiness is there, without it actually being so. All because the attention is so laser focused on the externals based on a written or unwritten church rule book.

Judgmental hogwash!

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Nothing wrong with dressing a certain way, and I don't think anyone on this forum would argue with that fact.

What we do argue with is the very title of your thread - STANDARDS PROTECT INWARD HOLINESS.

This is one of the most erroneous statements I've ever read, and I'd really be interested on whatever scriptures you may use to back this statement up.

NOWHERE in scripture does the Bible even allude to the fact that an outward appearance can PROTECT an inward holiness.

Maybe I just overlooked the scriptures............I eagerly await your response.

I appreciate your feeling this way but I feel that you are mistaken. I think there are some on here who consistently castigate standards keepers! I might even go so far as to take some to several! Usually they are the most recently "liberated" who are almost to the point of the pendulum starting to swing back to get the balance back in their life. :d

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Exactly! When you see pictures from the most conservative churches out there, this is what you see.

More hogwash! RW, you are on a roll tonight!

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I'll take my wife over the American Gothic one.

Granted, when we're their age, we may not look too much different.... But she will never have her hair in a bun and I'll never be carrying a pitchfork.

I won't say it

[simplyme]

Originally Posted by bdlooney

I am so frustrated with people today!

Why is it that when anyone of our people (Ladies especially) hold up "traditional" standards of dress they are automatically deemed as unfashionable?

My good wife wears skirts well below her knees and she is extremely fashionable. She does not look frumpy, weird, old lady or anything!

She looks like a lady who is worshipping her God in the beauty of holiness. Just because she doesn't have a tug-of-war match with her skirt every service does not make her archaic!

And this is not about my wife. I am using her as an example.

And just who determines fashion anyway? Is it a Spirit filled, modesty loving person? I don't think so! So why do we attempt to measure up to them?

I remember a scripture that says We are in the world but not of the world!

Why is there an assault on the holiness loving people that uphold outward standards to protect inward holiness? And why are these assualts coming from those that once were apart of us?

If you want to be charismatic then be charismatic but please stop trying to shove your so called "liberty" down my throat!!!!

There I think my rant is over!

Good post!
Glad to know I'm not the ONLY one, who "rants" like that,
..and AMEN (bolded portion) we who have inward holiness (such as what the majority here says is all that matters..anyway) have every right to dress outwardly in the fashion that some call "frumpy" too..most of us don't LIVE to please others, only JESUS., I USED TO dress 'fashionista' but what is considered 'fashion' is largely also the more 'sensual' stuff., no thanx.
FRUMPY IS COOL!
Just see how fashionable its becoming - watch "UGLY BETTY" from what little I've seen ( I always seem to miss it..I dont have much spare time ) she's making BIG BUX on nationwide t.v. projecting a nonfashion statement., working IN a fashion business., hmmmmmmmm...
I'll take UGLY anyday over ohsofashionsavvy CHARISMATIC..
JMHO..2cents worth.
sayonara