Your Turn: "Mistakes Backsliders Make"

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Thanks! Tonight is going to be even better... I feel it coming...

I genuinely feel sorry for those trapped in situations where they don't have REAL Apostolic Church. I'm thankful for a Church where God - and the response of His people - flows freely.

Steadfast, from what I have heard from you and your posting & the love & care you have not only for your sheep of your flock, but also for souls in general-your Church is blessed to have you!

Originally Posted by Blubayou

Bro Steadfast - I enjoyed this thread- It was good to see the forum get back to some productive and edifying substance. I really do not feel I have any advice to add to what has already been written. I do think you can broaden the topic to those who are if not backslidden on the pew, but may be a little cool on the pew. I have been there, and many of the tenets expressed here could apply. I am thankful to a merciful God who loves us whatever condition we are in!!!!!

Thanks, and your right: It's GOOD to see real biblical discussion about what I consider to be a pertinent subject. I would imagine that many here are glad to see something other than the slash, trash and shoot stuff that sometimes gets in the way of good discussions. Our forum sometimes gets a bad rap because of some of the outlandish stuff. If I have a choice between 'edifying' and 'outlandish'... I'll take the edifying any day of the week!

As for dealing with those still in the pews struggling, well, that's where I got 'sidetracked' this morning. Was teaching about backsliding and got a little 'too involved' in teaching about HOW to backslide... and dealt with those struggling in pews that never find victory over it. I ended up spending a lot of my 'foundation' setting for the series dealing with guarding yourself so that you never have to be in a backslidden condition in the first place.

Originally Posted by Ron

Steadfast, from what I have heard from you and your posting & the love & care you have not only for your sheep of your flock, but also for souls in general-your Church is blessed to have you!

Ron, I hope for their sakes you're right. I try to be the best I can... and this group deserves it!

[meBNme]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Once pride sets in ... the remaining steps may happen successively or simultaneously .... yet usually the drifting is GRADUAL.

The self-absorbed person allows Laziness to set in ... why should I pray? Why should I do this or that? Relying on the flesh and not walking in the Spirit.

The backslider ... no longer is bold in his/her faith ... He/she is ashamed of the gospel ... Cowardice sets in.

The backslider having distanced himself w/ his identity in Christ ... begins to fall in love w/ the things of the world ... Wordliness becomes the idol to replace God.

Finally, if the backslider ... is not careful he/she repudiates or denies God altogether.

He 2:1-3

1We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.

While I believe you are correct, I also think it is a common mistake that believers make when thinking of (and worse) dealing with backsliders.

The things you state certainly apply to believers as they are in the process of backsliding. They are symptoms, evidence of, and causes for backsliding.

But the danger is that once a person has already backslidden, and ESPECIALLY after they have acknowledged it, The last thing they need is to be told, or have inferred that they are prideful, self absorbed, shameful, a coward, and denying God.
While some or all of those things may have been true, and what caused them to backslide, Most all of them (that are wanting to come back) already know these things, and are under constant condemnation from themselves and the enemy about them. THE LAST THING they need, is for a preacher, or saints to join in that condemnation.

And trust me, that's what it seems like to them.

Instead, they need to be assured that it doesn't matter what they did, who they are, or what state of mind they are in. Just come back to God, he will make it all right. They need to know the mistakes that backsliders make that hinder them from coming back so they don't fall prey to the same traps.
What you said is true, but it is true of people who are on the way out, not of people who want to come back.
And if we aren't carefull, we can run the ones who want to return, away for good if we use that mindset in attempts to bring them back in.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by ILG

Some people actually backslide and some just leave the UPC. As you mentioned there is a difference. Are you going to post the story?

I won't post the story but will try to find it for you and make you a copy. In essence, it talks about the religious society that has the outward pretense of being "Christian"/ Apostolic but you have to journey out of it to truly reach the city of God.

For myself, I had to leave the traditions and religious rituals of what I had been raised in to truly find relationship with God. Many times one gets caught up in doing ministry that they forget whom they are serving to do it.

The Bible talks about having a "form of godliness, but denying the power thereof". I was so used to looking and playing the part that I was still looking and playing the part when the unction of the Holy Spirit was not there.

God is not party to the Phariseeical law and letter of "religous holiness", but likens it to whited sepulchres. Looks all nice on the outside, but inside is "full of dead men's bones".

The authoritarian/patriarchal churches want submission and conformation to rules and laws but this type of church is modeled by the Pharisees of the New Testament which Christ abhored. He became sin and fulfilled the law so we didn't have to, couldn't even pretend to live up to the many laws and rules to govern a person's mode of dress and conduct to try to obtain and merit the worthiness of eventual salvation.

You have to leave that environment/that society in order to find relationship with Christ and to conform to His holiness exhibited by fruits of the spirit, forgiveness, compassion, grace, & mercy.

Many who Apostolics think are "backslidden", are really humgry for relationship and tired of the phoney, self-edifying mode of behavior and dress which leads to self-righteousness, judgementalism, and a works based approach to kingdom living. Only they forget who's kingdom it is...they live in their own kingdoms and they stockpile dead bodies around it to protect it from being overthrown, not knowing all the while all they have is a graveyard that they are protecting.

You have to get out of that graveyard so you can see the kingdom on the other side of the throne of Grace. Sitting on that throne is Jesus Christ and in order to get to the City of God you have to pass through Christian City and walk under the blood of Jesus Christ. It is all about him and not about us, how we look to ourselves or others...inside we are all full of self-righteousness [filthy rags]. After coming under His blood we are covered in His righteousness and have no need of self-glorification. We are humbled by his unmerited favor and the world didn't give it to us and the world/church world can't take it away. Thank-you Jesus!

Blessings, Rhoni

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Thanks, and your right: It's GOOD to see real biblical discussion about what I consider to be a pertinent subject. I would imagine that many here are glad to see something other than the slash, trash and shoot stuff that sometimes gets in the way of good discussions. Our forum sometimes gets a bad rap because of some of the outlandish stuff. If I have a choice between 'edifying' and 'outlandish'... I'll take the edifying any day of the week!

As for dealing with those still in the pews struggling, well, that's where I got 'sidetracked' this morning. Was teaching about backsliding and got a little 'too involved' in teaching about HOW to backslide... and dealt with those struggling in pews that never find victory over it. I ended up spending a lot of my 'foundation' setting for the series dealing with guarding yourself so that you never have to be in a backslidden condition in the first place.

Amen, I agree.
I am out in a world that is about 95-98% against God, mingling with people who have attitudes, & fighting a devil that never completely goes away-
I enjoy coming in here and getting edification or helping someone else be edified!

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Maybe we're on the same page here and just can't see it. I realize full well that there are other truth preaching Churches outside the UPC. However, I don't think walking away from the UPC = backslidden.

I DO believe walking away from Apostolic truth = backslidden.

QUESTION: Are you saying that you can walk away from truth and not be backslidden?

Perhaps that is where my confusion is coming in.

A person can never walk away from truth and not be backslidden. However, you and I define truth differently. What I was saying is that is not always a bad thing.

[meBNme]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

Churches have services more than once on Sunday and once per week still?!?

We do! Three on sunday, one on wedsday, prayer on saturday.

Originally Posted by ILG

A person can never walk away from truth and not be backslidden. However, you and I define truth differently. What I was saying is that is not always a bad thing.

Then we are in agreement! Thanks for the clarification.

Originally Posted by Ron

Amen, I agree.
I am out in a world that is about 95-98% against God, mingling with people who have attitudes, & fighting a devil that never completely goes away-
I enjoy coming in here and getting edification or helping someone else be edified!

I think it would surprise us to know exactly how many really agree with us on this issue. Actually, I would venture to say the majority of this forum wants more threads like this. Many just don't post solid things of real substance because they expect it to be attacked on here. For instance, I made reference last night to 3 different individuals PMing me about the thread with GREAT stuff... but they feared others would tear away at their posts.

"In this, brethren, we do not well."

But, honestly, only we can change it...