Blacks and the UPCI

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

As I recall, your Pastor is not UPC also.

Is this correct, or are you saying you have a UPC Pastor who does not preach having a TV is wrong?

My pastor is UPC. He doesn't preach that having a TV is a sin. He doesn't have a TV and even if the UPC totally does away with the TV issue I doubt he would get one.

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

Does the UPC allow women to get behind pulpit, open and explain the Scriptures before a mixed crowd? Yes- that is preaching. Women as pastors, not so much, but they do allow women to do what I wrote about, and if you really want to be biblical and apostolic about things, you won't allow that sort of thing. The UPC church I went to had a woman that preached, and the pastors wife preached sometimes too. I preached when pastor was out, and I could not in good conscious turn down an oppurtunity to preach if I knew that me not preaching would mean a woman would be preaching. It became too stressful, I had to remove myself.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Is this a joke?

It must not be. I feel sorry for Alex.

The UPCI has many women pastors and preachers. Check out the IL district. I have preached for 2 women pastors in that district. I preached for a woman pastor in IN. I have preached for a few women pastors in MS.

If you want a good argument for women preachers, contact Dr. John Scheel in Beebe, AR.

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

I'll go easy... you can't remember 1000 names! lol. No, seriously, I can't imagine the Apostles having mega-churches. I see churches taking place in homes, I see intimate groups of Christians getting together to worship and break bread. When a church gets past a few hundred a lot of that is lost, and soon one has to schedule meetings through a secretary to get an appointment with anyone in the ministry.
When a church gets too big, the right things to do, from my understanding, seems to be to start daughter works and reach out to other communities, so that others can be reached, and a simple church pattern be preserved.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

It is true that the early church met in homes, but there was near 70,000 in the church in Jerusalem. I would call that a MEGA CHURCH.

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

There it is, proof that women can preach.

I wish I could have been there to hear the sermon.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Everyone needs to just worship with their OWN kind, keep it simple.

Ok folks, I'm sorry my post was taken so serious. My intent was to mock the old racist mindset of segregated worship which existed at the time of the formation of the UPC. I should have added something to make that more clear. Do appreciate the response though if It was serious.

Now about me: I got saved in church in PAW with a black pastor. I attended for years. Thad knows him, came out of his church.

I've been married to my black wife with for 12 years and have two beuatiful kids. Most on GNC know this and know I'm just mocking racism when I pull the chains a little.


once again sorry for not making my intent more clear and causing a ruskus.

Power to the people!

[timlan2057]

Originally Posted by Theophil

LOL! Good one.

Well, I meant it kinda tongue-in-cheek hoping to get a rise out of those like BOOMM or Brett Prince who harp that "you're no longer UPC so you shouldn't comment about it."

[timlan2057]

Okay to be serious ...

From 35 years of observation of the UPC's strongest districts, Louisiana and Texas, as well as the UPC in the south as a whole, I don't see where race relations were any worse than the world at large, but also not any better.

Blacks were pretty much looked at as "mascots" in the Louisiana and Texas Districts and not taken seriously as real leadership material.

Marvin Hicks preached Louisiana campmeeting in 1978.

He introduced a black couple that were starting a "black" church that came out of Calvary Tabernacle in Corpus.

He emphasized the "novelty" of this by saying behind the pulpit "these folks have been out in the sun too long and got a nice tan."

Yes, it was obviously meant for a good-natured joke. The campmeeting crowd of course laughed as well as the couple.

Of course they were just being good blacks in the UPC of the south in the seventies and knew their role as "mascots."

Even as intelligent a man as Tom Fred Tenney got caught up in the environment he was reared in around southwest Louisiana.

When Tenney was superintendent of Louisiana, a black choir from New Orleans sang at campmeeting. This was sometime in the eighties.

After the song, Tenney got up and said:

"There's not a prejudiced bone in my body so don't take this wrong. But we have just been treated to a Holy-Ghost-Chocolate-Sundae."

Again, it was meant to be a compliment laced with good-natured humor but even an intelligent and perceptive man like Tenney was subject to and his worldview affected by the rural south environment he grew up in.

Of course from today's perspective Hicks's statement was just plain ignorant and racist and Tenney's slightly less so.

I think in the Louisiana or Texas Districts of 2007 those statements would not be as well-accepted but in my opinion, I can't say they would go over like a lead balloon.

Face it, in the south most UPC "holiness standards"is a quixotic attempt to impose good old southern white-bread, white-boy, (well, for the world at large, it would be "beerbelly), orange-soda-belly culture on the entire world - at least on the entire culture of oneness pentecostalism.

It was good to see the New York Metro District with a multicultural board.

Of course in New York City, that's just a reflection of the population.

On the other hand, I find it ironic that the thread-starter claims to want to get away from "majoring on minors" and yet proceeds to do exactly that.

In black culture as a whole, their biggest hindrances are militant race-baiters like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton; shysters who prey on and make a good living from racial turmoil.

I live about 30 miles from Jena, Louisiana and saw that firsthand - the misrepresentations and lies the national media spread concerning the "Jena Six" would sink a battleship.

In the closed culture of the UPC and southern "apostolic" pentecostalism though, blacks have not near reached the stage of being "militant."

Even in 2007, from my observations, most seem to still be compliant "mascots" in an attempt to be accepted.

I am glad to see from this board though, that some mainline younger apostolics are politically diverse with some members of the Democrat party and concerned about political and social issues that affect their particular culture.

The half-joking (but really serious) pentecostal mantra - even by some moderates and libs like CC1 and Fred - that "you can't be a christian and be a democrat" is a bunch of malarkey.

And I'm a registered Republican though I'm becoming more Libertarian as I get older.

But in the UPC's strongest districts, race relations were and probably still are no better than the world at large.

Now before Brett or BOOMM or someone starts hollering about "Why don't you uproot the problems of the Methodists or Baptists"? - well, there obviously are some.

But of course these same guys will turn around and shout "We have the TRUTH! We have the HOLY GHOST! We have power that the Methodists and Baptists do not have!"

Okay then.

Pentecostals in the south should then be a social phenomenon and an exception regarding race relations ... but of course that is not the case.

That is why threads like this are relevant.

So in the predominantly southern-white-boy culture of the UPC in Louisana, Texas, Mississippi and Alabama, race relations are better in 2007 than in 1967, but obviously race relations are better in the world at large.

UPC churches in this area had more than their share of ignorant, militant racists.

I'm relating what I've seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears so believe me, I've been there, done that and got the t-shirt.

[PraiseHymn]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Ok folks, I'm sorry my post was taken so serious. My intent was to mock the old racist mindset of segregated worship which existed at the time of the formation of the UPC. I should have added something to make that more clear. Do appreciate the response though if It was serious.

Now about me: I got saved in church in PAW with a black pastor. I attended for years. Thad knows him, came out of his church.

I've been married to my black wife with for 12 years and have two beuatiful kids. Most on GNC know this and know I'm just mocking racism when I pull the chains a little.


once again sorry for not making my intent more clear and causing a ruskus.

Power to the people!

I forgave you even before you apologized. All is well on my end.

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Ok folks, I'm sorry my post was taken so serious. My intent was to mock the old racist mindset of segregated worship which existed at the time of the formation of the UPC. I should have added something to make that more clear. Do appreciate the response though if It was serious.

Now about me: I got saved in church in PAW with a black pastor. I attended for years. Thad knows him, came out of his church.

I've been married to my black wife with for 12 years and have two beuatiful kids. Most on GNC know this and know I'm just mocking racism when I pull the chains a little.


once again sorry for not making my intent more clear and causing a ruskus.

Power to the people!

OH I am so glad, I had never ever seen you do anything like this before and it was such a shock to see something on here that sounded so raciest...I am so tired of everyone saying we are one and then putting a hyphen in there...Bless you so very much and thank you for putting a great ending to this...

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by PraiseHymn

I forgave you even before you apologized. All is well on my end.

Hmmmm- seems like PraiseHymn has something to teach us here... forgive even before a person apologizes. I'm glad Truthseeker came on to explain his post. But I find this whole thing kind of encouraging. When "racism" is even suspected, we rise up against it in force. May we all stand together like this all the time. Like a wise man said one time.......




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