Do I believe it's essential to preach the full Apostolic message? Yes. Do I relegate all Christians who have never heard or understood this message to a burning Hell? No. Personally I will let the Lord be their judge. I'd rather get to Heaven and Jesus tell me that I was far too merciful in dealing with other Christians than get to Heaven and be told that I was too judgmental and condemnatory. I get no enjoyment out of saying that John Huss, John Wycliffe, William Tyndale, and John Wesley didn't make it because they didn't believe it exactly like we do. I want to believe they did make it. I will dance with Tyndale on streets of gold if I get to Heaven and find him there. I'll not be upset if God had mercy on his soul because of the fact that the Bible and it's truths were hidden by decree and distortion by the Catholic church for nearly a thousand years.
Seeing that unto whom much is given much is required...I sincerely fear that we (those of us who have this marvelous light) have a greater chance of being lost than maybe those who have lived before us.
So please understand, I believe that God alone is the judge of men's souls. Is the full plan repentance, baptism in Jesus name, and Holy Ghost baptism? You know it is. It is absolutely essential that we preach the full gospel and let God be the judge.
Translation- "Yes"
Thank you for the time to post this. Also let me say I appreciate you took the time to pray before posting. I may need to go back and read tomorrow when I have more time to fully digest this excellent post.
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I am not a member here -Do not PM me please?
First, I am not convinced that the Apostolic Truth has been fully restored as yet.
Please meditate and pray about what I'm about to say here before you respond...
...I believe that the Apostolic Truth has been restored...but I believe we are now waiting on the Apostolic Church to be restored.
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Secondly, I do not believe that we are the global last days revival. We have made the same mistake as the early reformers did...we've institutionalized our churches by the many denominations that has the same affect that other reformed churches before us. Denominationalizing a move of God as always in times past, has the effect of swallowing the death pill.
Too often a move of God will get under way but when the people then refuses to follow on in the light by obedience to the revealed light deferring to traditions and opinions of men...
Amo 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:
I can see your point and where you're going here. It's something to really pray about.
Was Abraham saved without circumcision? Or did his obedience to circumcision save him? Well, the obvious answer is this; circumcision did not save because if circumcision had saved, then Moses would be lost.
Moses did not circumcise in the wilderness. Knowing very well the directive of God, Moses did not circumcise. Some were and some were not. Evidently, it was not salvational. Joshua 5
Joshua re-instituted the act of circumcision.
The problem with the Gospel message today is of a little doctrine known as "dispensationalism." This teaches that God changed his salvational message through the ages according to the times and season. Somehow he demanded something different from the Old Covenant saints than from what he demands of us today.
We are inexplicably intertwined with the old testament saints. They without us should not be made perfect. The demand for salvation has not changed. We must have faith in God to be saved.
Well, herein you have the great debate; were the old testaments saints saved without baptism into Jesus Christ or his name invoked for them? Of course, you would say because the messiah had not yet come.
Were the old testaments saints saved by faith? Of course they were. Were the old testament saints filed with the H.G.? Yes, they were. As a matter of fact, they prophesied, healed the sick, raised the dead.? The gifts of the Spirit were in full operation.
Folks, there is only one Holy Spirit! He is the same yesterday, today and forever. God has not changed. What did change at Calvary was the husband of Israel in the flesh died. God incarnated himself to fulfill the legal covenant marriage agreement he made with Abraham and Israel whom he married at Sinai.
The only way for the gentiles to be joined with Israel, would be for Israel's husband to die, so Christ would be free to take on a new bride. (Romans 7) A spiritual heavenly bride.
Did the Old Testament saints speak with tongues? No, we have no written record as far as we know.
Jesus was the embodiment of he H.G. and we have no record of Him speaking with tongues. Pentecost was not a new salvation, Pentecost was a greater outpouring upon all flesh. Previous to Pentecost only those selected by God to be filled with His Spirit were filled. After Pentecost His Spirit filled "whosoever will."
At Pentecost, the Spirit of God was no longer selective because of the finished work of the cross. Baptism wasn't a "new thing." Baptism was a part of the ritualistic ceremonies of the law. It would be an automatic response to be baptized because thats what the law taught. These men were jews.
Herein lies the problem. Either what Jesus did at Calvary for the gentiles was enough or it wasn't and we have to add to it. It's just that simple. IF baptism could save you, you wouldn't need the cross. If you're clothes could save you, you wouldn't need the cross, if you're understanding could save you, you wouldn't need the cross.
The only entrance into the kingdom is by faith. He that cometh to God must believe that He is. The message isn't just "Apostolic" and two thousand years old, it's God's message of redemption and as old as God has dealt with humanity from Adam until now and every subsequent generation.
The only entrance into the kingdom is by faith. He that cometh to God must believe that He is. The message isn't just "Apostolic" and two thousand years old, it's God's message of redemption and as old as God has dealt with humanity from Adam until now and every subsequent generation.
This is why I still have hope in the movement.
Great Post!
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It makes no difference whether you study in the holy language, or in Arabic, or Aramaic [or in Greek or even in English]; it matters only whether it is done with understanding. - Moshe Maimonides.
Please meditate and pray about what I'm about to say here before you respond...
...I believe that the Apostolic Truth has been restored...but I believe we are now waiting on the Apostolic Church to be restored.
I will take you advice and pray before I give a definitive answer to your very excellent point here. I will come back later and give that response after much thought and prayer too. I would instantly agree with you if I thought that Church knew what its divine purpose in the earth is. I feel strongly that the church falls short of this mystery and the yet to be revealed truth.
However, without the benefit of that prayer, my first reaction to your point is that it is God who restores and not ourselves. God restores to the extent that we walk in love, doing the good. Only then does truth flow forth from love and good that allows us to walk in that truth faithfully with love, serving the good until the day that he catches us up into those heavenly realms restoring the church even further...then receiving even further truths that flows forth from love and good...ever advancing onward to perfection.
It is my opinion that the early Apostolic church of Acts was not the church that Jesus was looking for. It was only a very infant church in both revelation of truth and perfection. Even before it could advance to perfection, Paul's wolves came in, not sparing the flock, bringing in many damnable heresies. We know the end of the early Apostolic church.
It is my sincere belief that when the church is fully matured to the state that Jesus is looking for, the glory of the Lord will so much lighten the earth that the wicked will perish as the Sun of Righteousness arises with healing in His wings (Mal. 4) ...to restore all things...even creation itself. The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof, but Satan deceived mankind (the first church) and gained ascendency, by the power of a lie, over God's creation. Jesus Christ and his wife will retore all things through love and obedience that the first Adam and his wife lost through disobedience.
Yes, I will pray about your objection and come back later, as the Lord will lead me to add further to this particular thought...God willing.
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I can see your point and where you're going here. It's something to really pray about.
Here is why I find these kinds of questions so problematical:
Do you believe in the “once saved always saved” doctrine?
If I answered, Yes, then it is assumed that I believe in having a “free pass” into heaven and I miss out on hell. It is also assumed that I believe that I can live any kind of (sinful) life style I choose and “get a way with it”. Yet, to answer Yes is also to affirm my faith (trust and confidence) in God’s character and in His promises.
If I answer, No, then it assumed that I believe in living my life according to the standards of holiness as dedicated by men from their list of good ideas of what is pleasing to God. It is also assumed that I at least consider the fact that I could loose my salvation over most anything - even my accident (an unknown sin). When actually by answering, No, to the question, I deny God’s divine nature and call Him a liar.
So, how does one answer these kinds of questions?
A more acceptable questions would be: Do you believe that a saint of God can forfeit their salvation? Answer: Yes! I am also convinced that one can have their name blotted out of the Book of Life by God's own hand.
Thank you for answering
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
Truly, you are welcome. I also hope that my response was not too cryptic.
We OP's have a tendency make issues "black and white",according to the last sermon we heard, when the bases of the issue we are contending with are firmly casted in Jell-O - not scripture. Or, our questions and comments are more like religious mantras that we respond with when we don't have anything else to say. And, Yes! I sometimes find myself doing the exact same thing. <sigh>
Just being aware of the problem of "over generalizing", "stock responses", and quoting selected elements of some doctrine, as a substitute for thinking and self examination, will go along way in helping one to"clean up" their communication. I know. I need to start with my own first!
Even so, I have read several of your posts on other boards. You do well!
Also, thank you for not pointing out all of my typos and grammatical problems. In addition to everything else, you are also kind.
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It makes no difference whether you study in the holy language, or in Arabic, or Aramaic [or in Greek or even in English]; it matters only whether it is done with understanding. - Moshe Maimonides.
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