Forgiveness prior to baptism

[Adino]

A post exploring the reception of sin remission at the conversion of man's heart in repentance prior to water baptism:

The idea that forgiveness of sins is received at repentance permeates the NT. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John each make the point that forgiveness is received at repentance by quoting from Isaiah 6:10.

Isaiah 6:10

Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

To understand with the heart and “convert” in Isaiah 6:10 meant to “return to God in faith” or to “repent”. To “be healed” meant to be “made whole” or to be “made free from error or sin.” It meant to be forgiven.

Isaiah 6:10

Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert (i.e., repent), and be healed (i.e., forgiven).

Those who repented would be forgiven.

Matthew 13:15

For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal (i.e., forgive) them.

See also Mark 4:11-12 (which uses “forgiven”); John 12:37-40; and Acts 28:23-29.

To authors Matthew, Mark, Luke (in Acts), and John, “the heart” turning back to God in repentance brought healing / forgiveness.

Acts 3:19

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Forgiveness is received when the repenting heart converts to faith in Christ.

Luke 24:47

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

The phrase “repentance and remission of sins” in the Nestle Aland Greek version of Luke 24:47 is “metanoia eis aphesis” which is everywhere else interpreted “repentance FOR (EIS) the remission of sins.”

Mark 1:4

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for (eis) the remission of sins.

Luke 3:3

And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for (eis) the remission of sins;

John’s baptism pointed to repentance which was FOR the remission of sins.

There is strong evidence to suggest that Luke 24:47 teaches that “repentance FOR (EIS) the remission of sins” was to be preached through faith in the name of Jesus!

Acts 10:43

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

The repenting heart returning to God via faith in Jesus Christ absolutely SHALL receive the remission / forgiveness of sins.


Acts 2:38 supports this conclusion when you realize that the word “repent” is written in the 2nd person plural, the phrase “be baptized” in the 3rd person singular, and the phrase “for the remission of sins” again in the 2nd person plural.

It is grammatically sound to realize that the 2nd person plural phrases are connected while the insertion of a 3rd person singular phrase is parenthetical. Meaning, sin remission is to be connected to repentance and not to water baptism. Baptism becomes a parenthetical insertion as that which points to the forgiveness received when the repenting heart converts to faith in God through Jesus Christ.

If “EIS” is to be accepted as causal in meaning (i.e. “in order to obtain”) then we have John the Baptist (Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3), Jesus Christ (Luke 24:47), and Peter (Acts 2:38; Acts 3:19) teaching that man was to repent EIS (in order to obtain) the remission of sins.

Thus, forgiveness is received prior to baptism when the repenting heart converts to faith in God through Christ. Water baptism only points to this internal reality after the fact. The conscience made good before God prior to baptism is declared in baptism.

Your thoughts...

[freeatlast]

I agree ya with ya Adino.

Our misunderstanding has caused us to believe that sins can not remitted with out the servces of a MAN that recites words over someone while they are under water. That the blood is not applied until baptism.

The preacher, in that theology can take credit for applying the blood to a believers heart.

One preacher on this forum last week claimed that he was instrumental in forgiving sins when he baptized people.

The hardest thing for a man to do is to admit he is wrong. That will be the undoing of some I fear.

[Brother Price]

Well spoken!

[berkeley]

Price,

Are you still into Preterism?

[Brother Price]

UH, no. Still a futurist. Not a dispensationalist, but still a full fledged futurist.

In fact, though I share some points of agreement with preterism, I have not been into prepterism for many months now, maybe as long as two years. Had some leanings recently, but did not venture that direction.

[Apprehended]

Thread removed by Admin.

[Raven]

Adino
You said it well and I agree.

Raven

[Brother Price]

Only those who would come into Covenant agreement with Christ can be saved. One must repent of their sins. One must accept Christ and ask forgiveness, not for just the sake of conscience, but for the sake of one's soul.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are IN Christ Jesus. You must be in Christ to have condemnation removed.

[HangingOut]

Very well put. Our Sunday School speaker taught on atonement yesterday and stated that even though he had been in pentecost his entire life he was just now getting an understanding of this. Interesting.

Originally Posted by Adino

A post exploring the reception of sin remission at the conversion of man's heart in repentance prior to water baptism:

The idea that forgiveness of sins is received at repentance permeates the NT. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John each make the point that forgiveness is received at repentance by quoting from Isaiah 6:10.

Isaiah 6:10

Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

To understand with the heart and “convert” in Isaiah 6:10 meant to “return to God in faith” or to “repent”. To “be healed” meant to be “made whole” or to be “made free from error or sin.” It meant to be forgiven.

Isaiah 6:10

Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert (i.e., repent), and be healed (i.e., forgiven).

Those who repented would be forgiven.

Matthew 13:15

For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal (i.e., forgive) them.

See also Mark 4:11-12 (which uses “forgiven”); John 12:37-40; and Acts 28:23-29.

To authors Matthew, Mark, Luke (in Acts), and John, “the heart” turning back to God in repentance brought healing / forgiveness.

Acts 3:19

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Forgiveness is received when the repenting heart converts to faith in Christ.

Luke 24:47

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

The phrase “repentance and remission of sins” in the Nestle Aland Greek version of Luke 24:47 is “metanoia eis aphesis” which is everywhere else interpreted “repentance FOR (EIS) the remission of sins.”

Mark 1:4

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for (eis) the remission of sins.

Luke 3:3

And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for (eis) the remission of sins;

John’s baptism pointed to repentance which was FOR the remission of sins.

There is strong evidence to suggest that Luke 24:47 teaches that “repentance FOR (EIS) the remission of sins” was to be preached through faith in the name of Jesus!

Acts 10:43

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

The repenting heart returning to God via faith in Jesus Christ absolutely SHALL receive the remission / forgiveness of sins.


Acts 2:38 supports this conclusion when you realize that the word “repent” is written in the 2nd person plural, the phrase “be baptized” in the 3rd person singular, and the phrase “for the remission of sins” again in the 2nd person plural.

It is grammatically sound to realize that the 2nd person plural phrases are connected while the insertion of a 3rd person singular phrase is parenthetical. Meaning, sin remission is to be connected to repentance and not to water baptism. Baptism becomes a parenthetical insertion as that which points to the forgiveness received when the repenting heart converts to faith in God through Jesus Christ.

If “EIS” is to be accepted as causal in meaning (i.e. “in order to obtain”) then we have John the Baptist (Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3), Jesus Christ (Luke 24:47), and Peter (Acts 2:38; Acts 3:19) teaching that man was to repent EIS (in order to obtain) the remission of sins.

Thus, forgiveness is received prior to baptism when the repenting heart converts to faith in God through Christ. Water baptism only points to this internal reality after the fact. The conscience made good before God prior to baptism is declared in baptism.

Your thoughts...

[Apprehended]

Just in case someone may be confused in what in what Jesus did for us at the cross by taking away the sin of the world and universal salvation, let there be no doubt... I do not believe in Universal Salvation. Furthermore, I believe that one must walk in all the light of the Gospel that they have to be saved.

Let there be no doubt.