Forgiveness prior to baptism

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Remission or forgiveness of sins is in the word obeying and continuing in the word and light.We must always connect being saved with forgiveness of sins.If your saved your forgiven and if your forgiven your saved.Jesus is the word or blood,if you continue in Jesus the word the blood your forgiven and saved.All the truth of the new testament is the blood of Jesus.The blood is in the word when we obey.

Matt.26
[28] For this is my blood of the new testament(covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

1Cor.015:001 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel (truth) which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 015:002By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

We are saved by regeneration of the Holy Ghost.Keep in mind if were saved were forgiven.
Tit.3
[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

We confess in water.
Matt.3
[6] And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

1John.1
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1John.1
[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
John8:31. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;32. And ye shall know the truth (word) , and the truth shall make you free.


1 Tim.004:016Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; (teachings,word,Truth) continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

I do not see 1John 1:9 as a verse dealing with a saved person confessing sins. One who is saved has the imputation of righteousness perpetually as long as he continues to believe. We "walk in the light" of the truth of the Gospel and his blood perpetually cleanses us.

1John was written to saved persons and to gnostics who had crept into the crowd. These gnostics refused to believe that anything they did could effect their spiritual soul. John was calling on them to recognize their depravity and confess.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Adino

I do not see 1John 1:9 as a verse dealing with a saved person confessing sins. One who is saved has the imputation of righteousness perpetually as long as he continues to believe. We "walk in the light" of the truth of the Gospel and his blood perpetually cleanses us.

1John was written to saved persons and to gnostics who had crept into the crowd. These gnostics refused to believe that anything they did could effect their spiritual soul. John was calling on them to recognize their depravity and confess.

I was showing how we are saved and forgiven and stay saved and forgiven by continuing in the word and light.If we don't continue in Jesus the word we are not saved and forgiven and the blood can't be applied..

[Adino]

Originally Posted by Joelel

I was showing how we are saved and forgiven and stay saved and forgiven by continuing in the word and light.If we don't continue in Jesus the word we are not saved and forgiven and the blood can'y be applied..

As long as we realize the light we continue in is the acceptance of Christ. It is faith in Christ which perpetuates our right standing and not the performance of baptism or the manifestation of tongues.

Our standing continually rests ON HIM and not on the things we do as an outcropping of our having been saved.

Have a Merry Christmas, friend!

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Adino

Completely, understood, Mizpeh.... which is why I made it a point to direct attention to the other places in Scripture where the phrase is "repentance EIS remission of sins." My question is more why the Nestle Aland text chose to remain consistent on the relation between repentance and forgiveness when the others did not.

In those verses you leave out an important aspect of repentance for the remission of sins .....baptism. It was called the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. These folks coming to John the Baptist confessed their sins and were baptized. Mark 1:5 What I'm trying to say is they were not only repenting apart from baptism as in Acts 2:28 but they were being baptized unto repentance for the remission of sins. Matt 3:11 Water baptism was a necessary ingredient.

The phrase “repentance and remission of sins” in the Nestle Aland Greek version of Luke 24:47 is “metanoia eis aphesis” which is everywhere else interpreted “repentance FOR (EIS) the remission of sins.”


Mark 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for (eis) the remission of sins.
Luke 3:3
And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for (eis) the remission of sins;
John’s baptism pointed to repentance which was FOR the remission of sins.

You cannot find "preached through faith in the name of Jesus" in Acts 10:43. That is you interpretation of what it says. I would say that "through his name whosoever believeth in him" means exactly what it say...the name of Jesus is somehow involved in the remission of sins. And I suggest it is when we call on his name at water baptism as Paul was commanded to do in Acts 22:16 that we invoke the Spirit of Christ to perform a spiritual circumcision in our hearts.

There is strong evidence to suggest that Luke 24:47 teaches that “repentance FOR (EIS) the remission of sins” was to be preached through faith in the name of Jesus!


Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
The repenting heart returning to God via faith in Jesus Christ absolutely SHALL receive the remission / forgiveness of sins.

[Brother Price]

So God will dwell in an unclean vessel? Someone who has not been baptized in still considered unclean, so God may fill them with the Spirit, though they still have sin in their lives.

Sorry, but two and two does not add up here.

[mizpeh]

Someone who believes in Christ and repents is no longer walking in darkness. They are no longer actively walking in sin. The proof of repentance (a change of heart) is a person who doesn't do the sinful works they did before they repented. They are accepted with God. His grace and my faith and repentance are enough to bring me into fellowship with God.

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. Acts 10:35

Is there forgiveness that comes with repentance or only with baptism? Well, I know for sure remission of sins comes with baptism, that is forgiveness, a literal washing away and cleansing of our hearts, a spiritual circumcision.

Are we saved if we don't have this circumcision? I don't think so. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.

But does our relationship change with God when we believe and repent? Definitely! What is that change? Our way of thinking changes which is seen by a change in how we act. Although I'm not sure how our standing "positionally" with God is changed, I do know it is enough of a change to warrant God filling us with his Spirit.

[Brother Price]

The scriptures declare that if we confess our sins, HE is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Repentance comes from a godly sorrow when we confess our sins. I have yet to meet a sinner who confesses their sins who does not repent at the same time.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Adino

As long as we realize the light we continue in is the acceptance of Christ. It is faith in Christ which perpetuates our right standing and not the performance of baptism or the manifestation of tongues.

Our standing continually rests ON HIM and not on the things we do as an outcropping of our having been saved.

Have a Merry Christmas, friend!

Nope,The scripture teaches walking in the light is love and keeping his commandments.If we love and keep his commandments only then can the blood cleanse us from sin.The blood is applied in keeping his word.That includes believing,repenting,being baptized,being filled with the Holy Ghost,loving,keeping his commandments,all of his teachings.You see we are saved by faith.Truth of God's word gives faith.

1 John 1:[4] And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
[5] This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
[6] If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

2:[1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[6] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
[7] Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
[8] Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
[9] He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
[10] He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
[11] But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

[Adino]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

You cannot find "preached through faith in the name of Jesus" in Acts 10:43. That is you interpretation of what it says.

Uh,... no. I was speaking of Luke 24:47.

Luke 24:47

And that repentance [eis] remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

If you want to know where I get "through faith in his name" as an understanding for "preached in his name" then go to Acts 3:16 which states:

And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

And then to Acts 13:38-39....

Acts 13:38-39

Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

We can now go to Acts 10:43....

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Faith comes by hearing the word of God (Romans 10:17). Those who hear the word of God, understand with their heart and are converted to Christ absolutely ARE forgiven (Isaiah 6:10; Matthew 13:15; Mark 4:11-12; John 12:37-40; and Acts 28:23-29). Whoever converts..... receives forgiveness (Acts 10:43).

My point concerning Acts 10:43 was...

The repenting heart returning to God via faith in Jesus Christ absolutely SHALL receive the remission / forgiveness of sins.

I stand by this statement because it is absolutley true.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

So God will dwell in an unclean vessel? Someone who has not been baptized in still considered unclean, so God may fill them with the Spirit, though they still have sin in their lives.

Sorry, but two and two does not add up here.

BP...in the OT where the believers forgiven? If so how? Were all believers in the OT filled with God's Spirit?