Amen Felicity! You are exactly right. One must also beware of those so convinced of their own "rightness" that they alone speak the "truth" while everyone else's is merely a "version". Blindness isn't always physical.
I don’t think any Water/Sprit believer has been more vocal in defending the right of PCI type believers to discuss/defend their beliefs on AFF than myself. I have gone to bat and taken considerable heat from other W/S people (including admin) several times for defending guys who got banned for what I felt were unjust reasons. I continue to do that, however, over the last couple of months there has been a shift from the typical give and take to something else by a handful of posters.
Terms like “Mormon” and “Papist” are getting tossed around like pizza dough. THAT is not part of the give and take that make this place work. It needs to stop. I know this thing goes both ways. Some time back it seemed some of the W/S guys were being a bit over the top and it had to be toned down. Well, in the typical give and take of humanity the pendulum has swung and here we are. No biggie. Lets just get back on track.
That fixes part of the problem. The other part of the problem however, will be a little more difficult.
Some of our conservative brothers have left this place because it isn’t exactly safe to be a conservative in public these days. Its kind of like being a deer with horns from November to January, Having a good set of horns means something but it can also get you shot. I suspect the only cure for this part of the problem is time. Peace my conservative friends. Take cover and come back after hunting season!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Felicity, I agree with this wholeheartedly. I've often asked the question "If we know what we believe why are we afraid to entertain opposing viewpoints"?
But, the answer I get from some is, "That's exactly why - I KNOW what I believe, so why should I waste my time arguing?"
I guess it's all in how you look at it...........in my experience, the people who usually don't want to discuss things are the ones who are struggling with their own beliefs and don't want to be faced with their insecurites - myself included!
This type of discussion allows for us to retain what we believe and yet learn.
I have learned much from people I disagree with doctrinally...
Great Ferd, I stand on my original comment because aside from the statement made here about "saving grace" and Calviniist, I have heard similar comments for,oh going on 27 years now.
At the risk of running this fine tHread off on a rabit trail, what you fail to realize is that the person with whom you have taken issue, didnt SAY that those who believe we are saved by grace are Calvinists.
I suspect KQ actually fully understands that we are in reality SAVED BY THE GRACE OF GOD. (because that is what the good book says)
What KQ actually said is that the "Saved by Grace Calvinists" on this board were causing problems.
I suspect that were you to question KQ, you would find that they did not mean all PCI believers were being talked about. I suspect that KQ was speaking about the handful that has gotten pretty rough around here.
had you read the comment without your predisposed belief concerning those of us on this side of the fence, you would have gotten that. But we are conditioned arent we?
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Don't you see something new every time you read the Bible? ( Yes, thats the Holy Spirit, but nothing new changes the belief that saved me) Haven't you had things taught to you that don't line up with the Bible? ( Prior to Oneness Pentecost, yes, not since recieving Holy Ghost salvation) While the Holy Spirit does lead and teach and guide, there are things that need to be let go of, set aside. ( Things the same Holy Spirit couldn't show you?) There have been discussions here that have caused me to reexamine some beliefs that needed to be set aside. There have been discussions here that have caused me to reexamine some beliefs and determine that they are indeed correct. (If these beliefs , correct or set aside, were inacted on through further prayer in the Spirit then we agree)
FWIW, I did answer yes to all of your questions.
You speak of discussion within the realm of Apostolic Acts 2-38. That should be encouraged, I think what stmatthew speaks of is the acceptance of other beliefs or doctorines altogether. I see beliefs being posted here that have no ressemblence of Oneness Apostolic what-so-ever. If we want to allow that , fine, but change the guidlines and doctorine that govern this forum.
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
Well .... the truth of the matter is that the PCI view and PAJC views of salvation and holiness issues are very much blended and woven together in the rich and diverse pattern of the Oneness Apostolic movement.
We dwelled together in peace and harmony (for the most part) for many years and together accomplished great things for the kingdom of God because of intentional and conscious decision to not be contentious.
And good results .... namely, people repenting, being baptized in the name of Jesus and receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost and a lifestyle of consecration and holiness .... have come from both persuasions in regard to when a person is born again.
__________________ Smiles & Blessings.... ~Felicity Welsh~ (surname courtesy of Jim Yohe)
I don’t think any Water/Sprit believer has been more vocal in defending the right of PCI type believers to discuss/defend their beliefs on AFF than myself. I have gone to bat and taken considerable heat from other W/S people (including admin) several times for defending guys who got banned for what I felt were unjust reasons. I continue to do that, however, over the last couple of months there has been a shift from the typical give and take to something else by a handful of posters.
Terms like “Mormon” and “Papist” are getting tossed around like pizza dough. THAT is not part of the give and take that make this place work. It needs to stop. I know this thing goes both ways. Some time back it seemed some of the W/S guys were being a bit over the top and it had to be toned down. Well, in the typical give and take of humanity the pendulum has swung and here we are. No biggie. Lets just get back on track.
That fixes part of the problem. The other part of the problem however, will be a little more difficult.
Some of our conservative brothers have left this place because it isn’t exactly safe to be a conservative in public these days. Its kind of like being a deer with horns from November to January, Having a good set of horns means something but it can also get you shot. I suspect the only cure for this part of the problem is time. Peace my conservative friends. Take cover and come back after hunting season!
Yes sir Brother Ferd, will do.
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
Well .... the truth of the matter is that the PCI view and PAJC views of salvation and holiness issues are very much blended and woven together in the rich and diverse pattern of the Oneness Apostolic movement.
We dwelled together in peace and harmony (for the most part) for many years and together accomplished great things for the kingdom of God because of intentional and conscious decision to not be contentious.
And good results .... namely, people repenting, being baptized in the name of Jesus and receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost and a lifestyle of consecration and holiness .... have come from both persuasions in regard to when a person is born again.
There ya go!
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
I have good reason to believe that the balance is still out there. I have enough UPC friends and family to know they haven't all left. Forums are like people they go through cycles and we are in a pronounced one at the moment. The holidays are winding down and Spring will be here before you blink can three times. [almost] Lively discussion will always be popular with those who are open to learning and receiving more truth!
Raven
I have good reason to believe that the balance is still out there. I have enough UPC friends and family to know they haven't all left. Forums are like people they go through cycles and we are in a pronounced one at the moment. The holidays are winding down and Spring will be here before you blink can three times. [almost] Lively discussion will always be popular with those who are open to learning and receiving more truth!
Raven
Thanks for answering!
You are right about the cycles and I know we can get through this one too.
I honestly do NOT believe this has become a ex-UPC forum.
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
Linear Mode
