Where are all the Acts 2:38 folks (3-steppers)??

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Therefore, according to your interpretation of Acts and the Epistles, one cannot expect to have their sins forgiven and cast into the sea of forgetfulness until one is water baptized??? Is that what you are saying? If so, I disagree with your interpretation of Acts and the Epistles.

From what I understand of the word of God at this moment, yes, water baptism in Jesus name is for (not because of ) the remission of sins.

[Apprehended]

I will say it again and again and now once more. All of you experts in Acts and the Epistles are trying to interpret the Gospel without being schooled in the GOSPELS...

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

I will say it again and again and now once more. All of you experts in Acts and the Epistles are trying to interpret the Gospel without being schooled in the GOSPELS...

I'm not claiming to be an expert but it appears that you are, rabbi.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

From what I understand of the word of God at this moment, yes, water baptism in Jesus name is for (not because of ) the remission of sins.

Then you believe that one is washed in the water.

That is where you and I disagree. I believe that the repenting and confessing soul is washed in the BLOOD. Jesus will NEVER fail to forgive and forget all who come to him, confessing and believing...He refuses NONE.

For you to tell the world that "YES, he refuses your contrition and confession until you are washed in the water"...minimizes the BLOOD of Jesus, to be WORTHLESS for the contrite sinner, neutralizing their faith in the blood UNTIL he is water washed. This is regretful.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I'm not claiming to be an expert but it appears that you are, rabbi.

LOL....

Well, I make no claims.

But, I have studied the GOSPELS much more than the Acts and the Epistles.

I know many Baptist preachers and a few Presbyterian preachers too. They are almost EXCLUSIVE in the Epistles alone. If they teach anything, it is from the Epistles. If they preach anything, it is almost always exclusive in the Epistles. They became warped. They will remain warped until they go back to the GOSPELS. From there...from there ONLY can they advance to the Acts and finally to the Epistles. Meanwhile they need to stay away from the Epistles.

It appears to me that many Apostolics need to take another look at the Gospels.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Again, this has been dealt with nine ways from sunday but great!

Aquila, what I think is most significant for us to remember is, I preach Jesus and him crucified, and you are seeing folks filled with the HG and are baptizing them in the name of Jesus. At the end of the day, we find achieve the same thing. THAT is the most important part.

Not for the sake of this discussion. In order to work toward a resolution that agrees with both the Bible and the moving of the Spirit we have to resolve the question as to when sins are forgiven, i.e. when the blood is applied. In a previous post (#1137) it was stated that the blood was applied at water baptism. If that's the case bloodless, unforgiven, people are receiving the Holy Ghost...and that's impossible! For one to receive the HOLY Ghost one must be forgiven and the blood applied. If one can receive the Holy Ghost prior to water baptism...the blood is obviously applied prior to water baptism and therefore sins forgiven before water baptism. It is a VERY important question with VERY important implications.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

And my question to you would be how can the Spirit remain in someone who sins after they have received the Holy Ghost according to your reasoning?

The blood is active in their lives. If a Christian sins or struggles with sin the blood is active in their lives, covering and atoning for that sin as they work out their salvation through repentance unto holiness. That is how the Holy Ghost can remain in a Spirit filled Christian who struggles with sin.

Now that I've provided what I believe to be the answer to your question...let's get back to my question. If the blood is applied at water baptism...how did I and so many others receive the Holy Ghost prior to water baptism (i.e. before the blood was applied)? Evidently the blood is applied and sins are forgiven at repentance.

Mizpeh, when did you receive the Holy Ghost; before or after your water baptism?

[Aquila]

I'd be curious to know who received the Holy Ghost prior to water baptism and who received the Holy Ghost after water baptism. I'd like to know if those who received the Holy Ghost prior to water baptism tend to have 1 stepper leanings while those who received the Holy Ghos after water baptism tend have 3 stepper leanings.

[Aquila]

The fact is that our orthodoxy must agree with our orthopraxy. Right now their are serious theological contradictions.

[Apprehended]

Imagine this:

A dirty rotten sinner comes to Jesus sorrowful of his dirty rotten sins. He falls at the foot of the cross and prays this prayer with a heart broken over his sins...:

"Jesus, thou Lamb of God, I am sorry for my sins. I have sinned against you and have become guilty of all. I ask you to fogive me, wash me in your blood, cast them all away into the great sea of forgetfulness to be remembered no more. I pledge that I will do all that is within me to never sin against you again. I pledge that I will be obedient to you in all that you give me understanding. I now accept your forgiveness and I will rise to walk in the light in a new direction as you give me the power."


Then....

Jesus says, "NO." "I do NOT forgive you. I still hold all your sins against you. You are UNFORGIVEN still. There is another step or two that you must TAKE before I can possibly forgive you."

Actually...

This does not sound like the kind of Jesus that I find in the Gospels. I find this a perversion of the Gospels.