A dirty rotten sinner comes to Jesus sorrowful of his dirty rotten sins. He falls at the foot of the cross and prays this prayer with a heart broken over his sins...:
"Jesus, thou Lamb of God, I am sorry for my sins. I have sinned against you and have become guilty of all. I ask you to fogive me, wash me in your blood, cast them all away into the great sea of forgetfulness to be remembered no more. I pledge that I will do all that is within me to never sin against you again. I pledge that I will be obedient to you in all that you give me understanding. I now accept your forgiveness and I will rise to walk in the light in a new direction as you give me the power."
Then....
Jesus says, "NO." "I do NOT forgive you. I still hold all your sins against you. You are UNFORGIVEN still. There is another step or two that you must TAKE before I can possibly forgive you."
Actually...
This does not sound like the kind of Jesus that I find in the Gospels. I find this a perversion of the Gospels.
This is ludicrous!!!!!!!!! I don't care what they say out of their mouth and neither does God......The ONLY thing that will matter is the sincerity of their heart when these words are spoken. But ya'll keep splitting these hairs for whatever reason this horse getting pummeled, I'm a little thin up top anyway so I could use a good tuopea....(i know that ain't speelled right)
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
You know I love ya Ferd. I know that it’s uncomfortable but it often takes removing the scabs so that others might see.
Ferd, when did you receive the Holy Ghost? Before or after your water baptism?
I am glad you love me. I am sorry you feel it necessary to try to create division in this manner.
I recieved the Holy Gost in 1979 shortly before my tenth birthday. I was baptized right around the same time.
As far as I am concerned it really doesnt matter what the order was. Acts shows both orders therefore both are clearly biblical. in any case, baptism is commanded. (is commanded a strong enough word for you?)
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I'd be curious to know who received the Holy Ghost prior to water baptism and who received the Holy Ghost after water baptism. I'd like to know if those who received the Holy Ghost prior to water baptism tend to have 1 stepper leanings while those who received the Holy Ghos after water baptism tend have 3 stepper leanings.
I received the Holy Ghost before I was baptized in the name of Jesus. My wife received the Holy Ghost and later was baptized in the AOG church in the titles. It was not until years later that she come to be baptized in the name of Jesus. Meanwhile, she rejoiced in forgiveness of sins and the precious victory of the Holy Ghost.
If rigid three steppers are correct, one must follow the other. First step one in which nothing is accomplished until step two where one is forgiven of sins. Then, step three. Until step three is accomplished, none of the past two steps are effective as an eternal work, being only a temporary affect
This is ludicrous!!!!!!!!! I don't care what they say out of their mouth and neither does God......The ONLY thing that will matter is the sincerity of their heart when these words are spoken. But ya'll keep splitting these hairs for whatever reason this horse getting pummeled, I'm a little thin up top anyway so I could use a good tuopea....(i know that ain't speelled right)
Ludicrous?
Did I forget to add "sincere" in the prayer? Forgive me.
Now let us repeat the prayer and add the sincerity. Now! How's that!
Now that the man is sincere, does Jesus still tell him "NO." "I do not forgive you of your sins and still hold them against you, even though you are sincere until you take step two?"
I received the Holy Ghost before I was baptized in the name of Jesus. My wife received the Holy Ghost and later was baptized in the AOG church in the titles. It was not until years later that she come to be baptized in the name of Jesus. Meanwhile, she rejoiced in forgiveness of sins and the precious victory of the Holy Ghost.
If rigid three steppers are correct, one must follow the other. First step one in which nothing is accomplished until step two where one is forgiven of sins. Then, step three. Until step three is accomplished, none of the past two steps are effective as an eternal work, being only a temporary affect
Then why are you beating this horse brother. I too am starting to wonder why the need to try and divide.
There are over a hundred pages here where us "3-steppers" have spoken against what you are talking about, why are you still trying to make an issue out of a non-issue.
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
I am glad you love me. I am sorry you feel it necessary to try to create division in this manner.
I recieved the Holy Gost in 1979 shortly before my tenth birthday. I was baptized right around the same time.
As far as I am concerned it really doesnt matter what the order was. Acts shows both orders therefore both are clearly biblical. in any case, baptism is commanded. (is commanded a strong enough word for you?)
Hey Ferd, I’m not creating division. I would preach ya and never speak ill of you. I’d gladly worship and praise the Lord with you any day. I’m just asking some important questions. This is a soteriological discussion and the statement was made by Mizpeh that the blood is applied at water baptism. That presents a soteriological problem that causes a contradiction between orthodox (what we believe to be right) with orthopraxy (what we rightly experience and practice). If one receives the Holy Ghost BEFORE water baptism…it’s evident that the blood is applied and sins are forgiven prior to water baptism. Since this is a discussion regarding 1 stepper vs. 3 stepper concepts, this experience cannot be denied, overlooked, or swept under the rug. It has to be explained. In all honesty, it nearly proves through biblical example and experience that the 1 steppers have a very solid theological point that works itself out in an experiential fashion in churches throughout the world.
It sounds like you received the Holy Ghost before you were water baptized just like so many of us.
When do you believe the blood was applied?
We agree that water baptism is a command. However, if the blood is applied at repentance, one who is unable to be water baptized may actually be saved. In addition, it means that failure to be baptized isn’t failure to be saved, but failure to obey…i.e. a sin. And then the question comes to mind, can the sin of not being water baptized properly be forgiven? This might explain how men such as William Tyndale were saved without a revelation full truth. However, to him that knows what is right and doeth it not…to him it is sin. Those who know the full truth are accountable to it and therefore if they CAN be water baptized and refuse to be…they will answer for it in the judgment.
But the final point is this…the blood being applied and the forgiveness of sins may very well take place at repentance and not water baptism.
Did I forget to add "sincere" in the prayer? Forgive me.
Now let us repeat the prayer and add the sincerity. Now! How's that!
Now that the man is sincere, does Jesus still tell him "NO." "I do not forgive you of your sins and still hold them against you, even though you are sincere until you take step two?"
Speaking of Ludicrous!
Thank you!.....the man you are referring to , unless the promise of God is false , just recieved the Holy Ghost in the precious name of Jesus ....now ..what was your point???
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
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