The Pentecostals of ........(Arrogance)? - Page 15

acharris · #**141** 01-07-2008, 03:26 PM

So, you actually believe that the Lord would baptize an unsaved person in the Holy Ghost? What about the person who is baptized in Jesus' name but has never been baptized in the Holy Ghost? Are they saved?

Are there no people in this condition in your church?

grace_seeker · #**142** 01-07-2008, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triumphant1

The first church I remember using this was "the Pentecostals of Alexandria"...pastored by Anthony Mangun.

It seemed that it became popular in the Apostolic movement after that...

The church in Alexandria was well established when they started calling themselves by this name...interesting enough is that the "real" name of the curch is First UPC....so "The Pentecostals..." is like thier nickname.

Isn't it a sales term anyway? I remember when I first attended the "Greater First Pentecostal Church" of Alexandria back in 1979, I thought they should have named it after an opera house.

pelathais · #**143** 01-07-2008, 04:24 PM

It seems to me that there's a "distinction without a difference" being made in this thread. Face it, if acharris were to appear in any of our meetings he would be the focus of evangelization because he has not (to my knowledge) fulfilled Acts 2:38. Thus, however nice we want to be toward him, his is lost according to the official Oneness Apostolic doctrine.

And so, as a "lost soul" according to our sotierology, he comes on to the board asking about what he percieves to be our "arrogance." As it turns out, the source of the alleged "arrogance" is one of our more well known "compromisers." For this reason, the more "conservative" among us rejoice, because some one "from the world" said something negative about one of their rivals. And they pat acharris on the back for not only being lost, but also for adding fuel to a fire that is burning in our house.

Of course the UPC doesn't teach "only the UPC is saved." There are too many folks that have been driven from the UPC that we'd like to have back. But we don't teach that the AoG in general is "saved" or part of the body of Christ, at least we don't teach that any longer. I dare anyone to try and say that members of the AoG are saved in any of our conferences. Submit an article to the Pentecostal Herald and see how far it gets.

Let's get to the meat of the issue here: Is acharris considered to be our "brother" in Christ? That would be a good measure of "arrogance." Do we assign this good man to the depths of hell for his "three-god monstrosity" and any other short comings that we care to make up?

He has received the baptism of the Holy Ghost but has not professed to being baptized in Jesus name. From his position, I think it's probably safe to say he believes in "one God, in three Persons..." - the Trinity!

So we try to be nice to him, but we avoid the overt issue. AFF's notorious "conservatives" are silent because they really don't like to engage with "outsiders."

For my part, the good brother acharris was saved the moment he first called upon Jesus Christ in faith. Any other judgement would be "arrogant."

But how about you? Where would you put a prominent AoG pastor?

#**144** 01-07-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiyahstarter

I guess I'm too easy, but I would never dis-fellow another Christian. Nor would I condemn them to hell. It's just not my job.

Would you witness to them about the truth as you see it?

If yes, please elaborate on why.

If no, please elaborate on why.

#**145** 01-07-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkbyfaith7

Good for you Brother. Continue with the love of Jesus and you'll help many!

Help them with what? Sounds like they are fine as they are and need no help.

#**146** 01-07-2008, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni

I grew up UPCI from the mid 1960's. We were not allowed to fellowship ALJC churches. There was one a street over from where I lived in Elyria, Ohio. Bro. Kirk was the Pastor. I was told they didn't 'keep the standards'. From what I know of ALJC they keep more of that ultra-conservative 'dress standard' than many UPCI churches.

In regards to this thread. I believe we Apostolics were looked down on because of our many ecentricities and the Pastors began to preach that we were King's Kids and should be proud of our heritage. This boost in self-esteem led to some arrogance on our part, thinking we were better than other denominations, and even better than our own brothers and sisters.

I know at Ohio youth camp the church's reputation was built on the legalistic degree of dress standards and service. This was also the same for JCM days. We girls from Ohio looked down on the girls & guys from Texas and Lousianna because we considered them very loose, and we very holy.

You can disagree but I was there and I was from Ohio and I know what we Ohio girls thought.

Blessings,Rhoni

P.S. It came back to bite me on the butt when I was no longer keeping Ohio girl tradition and ostracisized and thought to be a traitor by a very high profile, 2 very high profile UPCI VIPs.

That is so strange, Rhoni. I went to TBC and we had a few Ohio girls there and I assure you that they were the loosest living girls on campus and we didn't hesitate to point out their borderline practices! We, after all, were holy men of God!

We especially got on to them about using "youse".

Fiyahstarter · #**147** 01-07-2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philjones

Would you witness to them about the truth as you see it?

If yes, please elaborate on why.

If no, please elaborate on why.

Yes... when asked. And I do believe they will ask. Because they will see something in me that they will want to know about. But they will only see this "something" by my fellowshipping with them... not by my ex-communication of them.

And I might learn something from them as well.

In all of the UPC churches I have attended, I can't help but notice, in spite of all of our wisdom, knowledge, and revelation of scriptures... WHERE IS THE LOVE??? In my experiences, we are lacking... I used to sit on barstools with kinder folk than I sit with in the pews.

Sometimes, I am ashamed of us.

Mrs. LPW · #**148** 01-07-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiyahstarter

Yes... when asked. And I do believe they will ask. Because they will see something in me that they will want to know about. But they will only see this "something" by my fellowshipping with them... not by my ex-communication of them.

And I might learn something from them as well.

In all of the UPC churches I have attended, I can't help but notice, in spite of all of our wisdom, knowledge, and revelation of scriptures... WHERE IS THE LOVE??? In my experiences, we are lacking... I used to sit on barstools with kinder folk than I sit with in the pews.

Sometimes, I am ashamed of us.

That's a problem widespread throughout all Christiandom, not just Pentecostal ranks. That's a fact.

Fiyahstarter · #**149** 01-07-2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. LPW

That's a problem widespread throughout all Christiandom, not just Pentecostal ranks. That's a fact.

My experience has been that UPCers take the cake.

mizpeh · #**150** 01-07-2008, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

For my part, the good brother acharris was saved the moment he first called upon Jesus Christ in faith. Any other judgement would be "arrogant."

But how about you? Where would you put a prominent AoG pastor?

If the good brother is not born again of the water and Spirit, the good brother is not going to enter the kingdom.

I would not be putting the good brother anywhere, the words of Jesus will put the good brother wherever he is going to go.

Because I understand the words of Jesus to mean a certain thing then to some I am less loving and open hearted than those who embrace a believer who has not received this truth the same way I have! Hmmmmm....who is judging whom?