How big is this phenomenon? Do you have percentages of relationships that have been ripped or are being ripped apart? Our little corners of the world aren't necessarily representative of the whole, no matter how much you portray them as such.
When things cool down, people will be fine. Thanks to the internet and forums to inflame issues that used to die down in a timely manner.
Sorry to say, Jekyll, but a lot of them will not be fine. Many of us who have been around for awhile have seen this situation repeated and repeated and there are a lot of innocent bystanders who are wounded...some fatally.
Thank you, Apprehended, for the kind, sincere, and honest post that opened this thread. I too have seen families torn apart by such as this--bewildered, frustrated and hurt. I know fathers, sons and grandsons who, in the past, have been split by such actions. I truly wish no such meeting as Tulsa were scheduled.
Quote:
tol·er·ate (verb)(used with object)
1. to allow the existence, presence, practice, or act of without prohibition or hindrance; permit.
2. to endure without repugnance; put up with
Rev. Buddy, I appreciate the truth in these remarks.
On the other hand, probably all of us have a point at which we will say: This is so far beyond what I think is right, that I cannot in good conscience fellowship here. I must go elsewhere. I don't see how the Tulsa brethren have come to that conclusion, but perhaps they have. Perhaps in their eyes, the UPCI is so off-track they feel compelled to leave.
Would it not be better, though, to quietly leave and cause no harm to those who are left.
Last edited by Thinking; 01-16-2008 at 02:44 PM.
Reason: grammar
I hesitate to even tell this… after so many years it remains an open wound.
I guess it has been nearly 13 years.
Just after my dear sweet wife and I married, the church we both grew up in split. Her family compromised leadership of one side of the split, my father was the leader of the board that stood behind the pastor.
For those that have gone thru such an event, I don’t need to continue.
Hard does no justice to this journey. By the Grace of God, we as a couple have remained on the same page, and while having taken a stand firmly behind the right way of doing things, we have suffered for it.
Words like “ well if I die, I don’t even want them to tell you because I don’t want you to have to come to our church!”
“you support liars!”
And all manner of things that I just cannot bring my self to say.
Splits of this nature tear at the fabric of a family! People justify their actions with some kind of “righteous indignation” that in reality is a stench in the nostrils of God.
By prayer and the blessings of God we maintain relationships with those who chose a course we deemed wrong, but only because of deep sincere desire to maintain those relationships, in spite of, and in the face of constant pressure to accept the unacceptable.
I cry for all of those who will be hurt by this. There will be many and it will be ugly.
I am sure those leaving will say they have been hurt too. God knows that is true. God knows the rest of us don’t want you to violate your convictions. At the end of the day, everyone will claim to be “right”. Everyone will claim they have been “validated” by the Spirit of God.
Everyone will stand with righteous indignation when challenged by those they oppose. And the hurt will continue until all the players are dead and in the grave.
And it will all be done in the Name of God.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I hesitate to even tell this… after so many years it remains an open wound.
I guess it has been nearly 13 years.
Just after my dear sweet wife and I married, the church we both grew up in split. Her family compromised leadership of one side of the split, my father was the leader of the board that stood behind the pastor.
For those that have gone thru such an event, I don’t need to continue.
Hard does no justice to this journey. By the Grace of God, we as a couple have remained on the same page, and while having taken a stand firmly behind the right way of doing things, we have suffered for it.
Words like “ well if I die, I don’t even want them to tell you because I don’t want you to have to come to our church!”
“you support liars!”
And all manner of things that I just cannot bring my self to say.
Splits of this nature tear at the fabric of a family! People justify their actions with some kind of “righteous indignation” that in reality is a stench in the nostrils of God.
By prayer and the blessings of God we maintain relationships with those who chose a course we deemed wrong, but only because of deep sincere desire to maintain those relationships, in spite of, and in the face of constant pressure to accept the unacceptable.
I cry for all of those who will be hurt by this. There will be many and it will be ugly.
I am sure those leaving will say they have been hurt too. God knows that is true. God knows the rest of us don’t want you to violate your convictions. At the end of the day, everyone will claim to be “right”. Everyone will claim they have been “validated” by the Spirit of God.
Everyone will stand with righteous indignation when challenged by those they oppose. And the hurt will continue until all the players are dead and in the grave.
And it will all be done in the Name of God.
BRAVO!! If this thread was closed right now, enough has been said.
__________________
I hate to see you frown. So wear a bag over your head until you cheer up!
I hesitate to even tell this… after so many years it remains an open wound.
I guess it has been nearly 13 years.
Just after my dear sweet wife and I married, the church we both grew up in split. Her family compromised leadership of one side of the split, my father was the leader of the board that stood behind the pastor.
For those that have gone thru such an event, I don’t need to continue.
Hard does no justice to this journey. By the Grace of God, we as a couple have remained on the same page, and while having taken a stand firmly behind the right way of doing things, we have suffered for it.
Words like “ well if I die, I don’t even want them to tell you because I don’t want you to have to come to our church!”
“you support liars!”
And all manner of things that I just cannot bring my self to say.
Splits of this nature tear at the fabric of a family! People justify their actions with some kind of “righteous indignation” that in reality is a stench in the nostrils of God.
By prayer and the blessings of God we maintain relationships with those who chose a course we deemed wrong, but only because of deep sincere desire to maintain those relationships, in spite of, and in the face of constant pressure to accept the unacceptable.
I cry for all of those who will be hurt by this. There will be many and it will be ugly.
I am sure those leaving will say they have been hurt too. God knows that is true. God knows the rest of us don’t want you to violate your convictions. At the end of the day, everyone will claim to be “right”. Everyone will claim they have been “validated” by the Spirit of God.
Everyone will stand with righteous indignation when challenged by those they oppose. And the hurt will continue until all the players are dead and in the grave.
And it will all be done in the Name of God.
Sorry, Ferd, didn't mean to imply that it doesn't happen and that it isn't heartbreaking when it does happen.
On the other hand, I found the opening post to be a bit dramatic. Obviously not every church or family has been faced with these horrible events.
I wish that....
Oh well, I wish that I were taller, too.
__________________
"Some may call me foolish, some may call me odd; but I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man than a fool in the eyes of God..."
tell that to the families involved when the AMF guys pulled out in the 60's. nothing timely about how that calmed down.
I don't think what is happening now and what happened in the late 60's with the AMF is the same thing. At least not yet.
Men were tossed out of the UPC in the 60's, and evicted from churches that they had personally built because they refused to not fellowship conservative independent men.
There's Hundreds of Apostolic Churches in this world.
Can you name two Pastors that will agree on every issue of what's right or wrong.
If it's our FRIENDS we are tolerant..it it's our ENEMY they are so wrong!!
I know Pastors that preach it's wrong to curl your hair, pluck your eyebrows, wear certain colors, go to amusement parks, wear your dresses to long, your sleeves have to be below the elbow, some think they should be to the wrist, you can wear a watch, you can't wear a watch, you can wear a wedding ring, you can't wear a wedding ring, women's hair has to be up, some it has to be down, you have to be in our group, you can't be in that group...etc!!!
I know there's some lines you can't cross..They are Heaven or Hell issues...but what's wrong with just living for God and stop all of the picking and back biting that goes on in this world.
I hesitate to even tell this… after so many years it remains an open wound.
I guess it has been nearly 13 years.
Just after my dear sweet wife and I married, the church we both grew up in split. Her family compromised leadership of one side of the split, my father was the leader of the board that stood behind the pastor.
For those that have gone thru such an event, I don’t need to continue.
Hard does no justice to this journey. By the Grace of God, we as a couple have remained on the same page, and while having taken a stand firmly behind the right way of doing things, we have suffered for it.
Words like “ well if I die, I don’t even want them to tell you because I don’t want you to have to come to our church!”
“you support liars!”
And all manner of things that I just cannot bring my self to say.
Splits of this nature tear at the fabric of a family! People justify their actions with some kind of “righteous indignation” that in reality is a stench in the nostrils of God.
By prayer and the blessings of God we maintain relationships with those who chose a course we deemed wrong, but only because of deep sincere desire to maintain those relationships, in spite of, and in the face of constant pressure to accept the unacceptable.
I cry for all of those who will be hurt by this. There will be many and it will be ugly.
I am sure those leaving will say they have been hurt too. God knows that is true. God knows the rest of us don’t want you to violate your convictions. At the end of the day, everyone will claim to be “right”. Everyone will claim they have been “validated” by the Spirit of God.
Everyone will stand with righteous indignation when challenged by those they oppose. And the hurt will continue until all the players are dead and in the grave.
And it will all be done in the Name of God.
Ferd:
I'm amazed at your post...not just for it's clarity and frankness, but because you and I share more in common that I had ever imagined...God bless you for your powerful thoughts and you have my prayers and mutual support...
and my heartfelt respect...you're a brother and a friend...
It has become so easy in our quest for whose right and whose wrong, even as groups, to forget that holiness in an inward attribute that is seen outwardly. The dress and the facade are in place, but the heart is so far gone. We need to remember, holiness sets us apart, not above.
I would like to add that as one whom has read many forums discussons, like many here have, , I for one am TIRED of the attitude that considers anyone that dresses the part {so to speak} to NOT be "holy" inside, well that is plain just NOT truth!
I believe that those who do not wish to "dress the part" are the ones mad at those who do want to, because they 'think' it makes them look worse, and so as they "think" so they are., people would do well in the interest of united brethren to just accept one another as they are or wish to be without planting seeds of suspicion, distrust and so forth.
It begins and ends with EACH individual saint., pointing fingers is not the way to foster good relations with all bro's and sis's., no one is all the way perfect or 'there' we should hold each other UP and not bring anyone down., even those some might consider to be acting as if ABOVE, thoughts such as that come from satan., the author of all lies and divisions.
Just my :
__________________ You can tell more about people
by what they say about others...than by what others
say about them.
Sorry to say, Jekyll, but a lot of them will not be fine. Many of us who have been around for awhile have seen this situation repeated and repeated and there are a lot of innocent bystanders who are wounded...some fatally.
This, I have seen firsthand. There are folks who don't darken church doors now...
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
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