The 1 Step Salvation plan

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Unless a man is born of water and the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Water is water baptism. Spirit is spirit baptism. If one has not believed and repented his experience will not be real. The steps to be "fully saved".

Hi Michael,Nice seeing you.How's the wife And all ?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by ApostolicTexas

Your 1 Step brthren would disagree with you..Their chief ally and compadre is Corneilus...He was forgiven and filled with the Holy Ghost BEFORE water baptism...I am on your side though

Thats why I said "fully saved".

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Thats why I said "fully saved".

What do you mean fully saved,how is a person partly saved ?

[Aquila]

If God doesn't remit sin at repentance...how did I receive the Holy Ghost well before I was water Baptized? Surely you're not going to tell me that I was a filthy, unforgiven, sinner who received the HOLY Ghost. The Holy Ghost will not dwell in an unclean temple. After I repented...I was clean and forgiven.

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If God doesn't remit sin at repentance...how did I receive the Holy Ghost well before I was water Baptized? Surely you're not going to tell me that I was a filthy, unforgiven, sinner who received the HOLY Ghost. The Holy Ghost will not dwell in an unclean temple. After I repented...I was clean and forgiven.

I can testify and say the same thing..God did remit my sin at the altar and I also recieved the Holy Ghost! but I was leadd to the waters of baptism a few days later..

This 1 stepper doctrine believes aperson can repent and God forgives them {and I agree]however they will leave them there at the altar hi and dry...will not pray em through to the Holy Ghost..until the evidence comes..

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by Joelel

What do you mean fully saved,how is a person partly saved ?

Some will say...complete all 3 steps.Acts 2:38

[Aquila]

I believe that water baptism and Holy Ghost infilling are part of obedience. Failing to obey either one can endanger the soul. However, God forgives sin at repentance. If one repents and CANNOT be water baptized or is so sick they cannot speak in tongues, I believe they are forgiven and will be saved. They will not have the same standing in eternity as those who have obeyed and lived faithfully, but they will be saved.

Though God desires that we obey the fulness of Apostolic teaching, God is also gracious and merciful.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Joelel

What do you mean fully saved,how is a person partly saved ?

Hi Joelel,

The wife is having to fight harder of late. But she still does much of what she always has. Thanks for your prayers.

Faith and repentance are the basis of the new birth. However if one is not born of water and the spirit they cannot enter the kingdom of God. So the salvation process begins with faith. Everything else proceeds from it.

Jesus taught the Apostles about the new birth. At Pentecost Peter and the rest did not teach sinners what faith only teachers tell them. They asked

WHAT MUST WE DO?

The Apostles said Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission/forgiveness of sins and you shall receive the Holy Spirit.

Whats wrong with saying what THEY SAID? WERE THEY WRONG?

If they were not wrong that means they were right.

The confusion comes in when people are taught wrong or incompletely at the start. Then when they hear all of the new birth message they become confused. I had the same experience.

Thats why the Oneness Pentecostals should not draw back on Acts 2:38. They were a bright light for the Oneness and new birth truths that Elohim raised up.

Yes he works with us where we are. But a trip to the altar alone will not guarantee a trip to Heaven.

Water baptism is ALWAYS presented in scripture in salvation terms.

Paul says without the Spirit we are none of his.

Why not teach it all from the start and be like the Apostles?

Let US be willing to change and not force change upon the word.

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by ApostolicTexas

This movement is gaining ground among the Apostolic/Pentecostal circles as the 21st century "New Issue".They basically teach that faith alone saves just like any other denomination.Salavtion comes before water baptism they say as the example for Corneilus is given as their their prime example.They believe in water baptism in Jesus name..but it does not remit sin as sin was remitted at repentance..some even say no need at at all [to be baptized]and it doesnt matter what formula is used..This doctrine is known as the 1 step and it is actually nothing new.. These guys are just good o baptist people baptized in Jesus name!

Some lurk here on this board if you have not yet discovered them!

Evidently, Tex, you don't come around AFF very often. If you did, you would know this subject has been discussed, studied, examined, debated and argued over since... well, for a long time. And, as you most surely should know, there are different views now, just as there has always been different views. A great organization (of which I am not a member) was formed in 1945 that brought together two groups- one of which were, as you characterize, "One Steppers", the other "Three-steppers". An amazing, miraculous feat, I must say, which, in todays polarized atmosphere among Apostolic people, would be virtually impossible. But, if I understand Apostolic history, that feat of unity in 1945 could only be accomplished through the inspiration of one man, who sat down in a room and was given the words that lead to the formation of the United Pentecostal Church. Something about standing for the differing views but not to the disunity of the Body. When these words were read to the committee they all wept, embraced and praised God that He, through the inspiring words of that document, paved the way for the formation of what we call now "The UPCI".

Course, as I understand, those words are hard to find today. They have all but disappeared from the annals of the UPC. Also, disappearing, it seems, is the spirit in which those words were written. Now, "1 stepper" brethren, of which, though I despise this disivive and carnal "labeling", I am happy to align myself with, are called Baptist. We have been called compromisers. Its been said we deny the need for, or the importance of, water baptism. In short, a huge blanket has been thrown over all who don't align or conform themselves to "accepted Apostolic views". The spirit that brought people together is gone. Division and separatism is all that is left. 1992, recent events. Can we not see that the docment of 1945 was the "tie that binds"? I stand corrected. It wasn't the document. It wasn't the words. It was the spirit. It was the attitude. The "first love" is being forsaken.

Another division is in the offing, I predict. That will be when one-steppers and three-steppers go their separate ways. There will be those who will rejoice and say "Good riddance". Then there will be those who will weep as Jesyus wept over Jerusalem. I will weep when I see another wedge of divsion being driven between brethren who have prayed and preached together. Just as our Apostolic forefathers wept when they were dismissed from the Assemblies of God, and brethren who loved one another were forced to break fellowship, more fellowship is being broken now... and more will come later.

The blanket you have thrown over your "one-stepper" brethren doesn't fit, Brother. We do not deny the need for water baptism, and, while there are some who may say this, your characterization is unfair. Your referring to us as Baptist is as accurate as those who accuse "three-steppers" of being "legalist" and Pharisees. The spirit from which those labels come is not pleasing to the Lord. We are brethren, who share the common expereince of being filled with the same Spirit, whether we recieved that experience before baptism or after.

I pray that we Apostolic believers, whether we be ALJC, UPC, or, now WPF or whatever, can come back to the desire for unity.I have written much on this forum about UNITY, but it goes into oblivion with berely a comment, because UNITY is though of as an impossible dream. An unachievable goal. I sometime wonder if wwe even desire to UNITE as Christ prayed in the garden. But, I , and others, pray. I pray that we can build our foundations, not on a pet doctrine or belief, but on the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray our fellowship with one another can be based, not on a manual or card, but on that Self-Same Spirit, that fills us to overflowing. Finally, I pray that our love for one another, shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost, will transcend doctrinal and organizational barriers just as it has transcended (hopefully) racial prejudice. I pray that we will one day share in the spirit of Abraham who spoke the words below.....

(A footnote: Many of us do not lurk, brother. There is no need to dicover us, nor do we need to be "outted". We stand emphatically for what we believe and, when necessary, we (at least some of us)respectfully disagree with others without resorting to name calling and unfair and misleading characterizations. And, now I can speak only for myself, we extend a right hand of fellowship, with ALL of our Apostolic brethren and sisters, without favor and partialilty. We believe absolutely and resolutely in what the NT teaches: We are one in Christ.)

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Evidently, Tex, you don't come around AFF very often. If you did, you would know this subject has been discussed, studied, examined, debated and argued over since... well, for a long time. And, as you most surely should know, there are different views now, just as there has always been different views. A great organization (of which I am not a member) was formed in 1945 that brought together two groups- one of which were, as you characterize, "One Steppers", the Other "Three-steppers". An amazing, miraculous feat, I must say, which, in todays polarized atmosphere among Apostolic people, would be virtually impossible. But, if I understand Apostolic history, that feat of unity in 1945 could only be accomplished through the inspiration of one man, who sat down in a room and was given the words" that lead to the formation of the United Pentecostal Church. Something about standing for the differing views but not to the disunity of the Body.When these words were read to the committee they all wept, envraced and praised God that He, through the inspiring words of that document, paved the way for the formation of what we call now "The UPCI".

Course, as I understand, those words are hard to find today. They have all but disappeared from the annals of the UPC. Also, disappearing, it seems, is the spirit in which those words were written. Now, "1 stepper" brethren, of which, though I despise this disivive and carnal "labeling", I am happy to align myself with, are called Baptist. We have been called compromisers. Its been said we deny the need for, or the importance of, water baptism. In short, a huge blanket has been thrownover all who don't align or conform themselves to "accepted Apostolic views". The spirit that brought people together is gone. Division and separatism is all that is left. 1992, recent events. Can we not see that the docment of 1945 was the "tie that binds"? I stand corrected. It wasn't the document. It wasn't the words. It was the spirit. It was the attitude. The "first love" is being forsaken.

Another division is in the offing, I predict. That will be when one-steppers and three-steppers go their separate ways. There willbe those who will rejoice and say "Good riddance". Then there will be those who will weep. I will weep when I see another wedge of divsion being driven between brethren who have prayed and preached together. Just as our Apostolic forefathers wept when they were dismissed from the Assemblies of God, and brethren who loved one another were forced to break fellowship, more fellowship is being broken now... and more will come later.

The blanket you have thrown over your "one-stepper" brethren doesn't fit, Brother. We do not deny the need for water baptism, and, while there are some who may say this, your characterization is unfair. Your referring to us as Baptist is as accurate as those who accuse "three-steppers" of being "legalist" and Pharisees. The spirit from which those labels come is not pleasing to the Lord. We are brethren, who share the common expereince of being filled with the same Spirit, whether we recieved that experience before baptism or after.

I pray that we Apostolic believers, whether we be ALJC, UPC, or, now WPF, can come back to the desire for unity. I pray that we can build our foundations, not on a pet doctrine or belief, but on the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray our fellowship with one another can be based, not on a manual or card, but on that Self-Same Spirit, that fills us to overflowing. Finally, I pray that our love for one another, shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost, will transcend doctrinal and organizational barriers just as it has transcended (hopefully) racial prejudice. I pray that we will one day share in the spirit of Abraham who spoke the words below.....

(A footnote: Many of us do not lurk, brother. There is no need to dicover us, nor do we need to be "outted". We stand emphatically for what we believe and, when necessary, we respectfully disagree with others. And, now I can speak only for myself, we extend a right hand of fellowship, with ALL of our Apostolic brethren and sisters, without favor and partialilty. We are one in Christ.)

Good post! Great spirit!