RKS Upclose

[rkentsmith]

Too many churches and pastors have been held hostage by such.....

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Thanks RK -- your website looks great!

Still think you need a smiling picture!

He may not have one.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by rkentsmith

Too many churches and pastors have been held hostage by such.....

Can you explain what you mean? How would a church or pastor be held hostage--and what is "such"? I'm not understanding how the church or a pastor is somehow helpless against a "music devil." IF a musician or singer is out of line--so badly that they can be termed a "devil"--then why would they still be ministering?

By the way, I totally did not get your friend's blog. He has so many inner struggles with narcissism and who-knows-what-else that he had to sit himself down--and he disrespected his pastor for letting him play when he was being a "fool?" That's a spiritual problem, not a "music" problem. How would the pastor know unless there were obvious outward signs? Was your friend sinning in some way? Did he just have a bad attitude?

I am being a little bit obtuse about this whole thing, because I KNOW there are carnal people everywhere, and I've been one my fair share of the time. But that doesn't make me or them a "devil", and maybe I resent that exaggerated characterization. I am a human being, I have faults like everyone else, and just because I get up to sing a song doesn't mean my faults go away or cease to be visible. Some days I am kind to everyone and easy to work with, and some days I'm stressed out and end up speaking too sharply to the tenors and giving the drummer the evil eye. Does that make me a "devil?" Or "normal?"

Maybe I don't understand this whole thing, because I'm having a hard time visualizing what you're calling a "devil." Is it something you can easily illustrate? Like I said before, I just have a hard time labeling people who donate their time and effort as "devils", even on bad days. And those that do get paid, often don't get paid enough to even make it matter.

And why is talking about a pastor like this okay with you?

"...I despised even moreso the pastors who put up with me.

Nothing is more spineless and pathetic than a supposed "man of God" who doesn't have the backbone to sit a musician down when they're not measuring up."

[rkentsmith]

OK....

Pastor has nice church and congregation....

Pastor finally has some "good music"...

Enter the music devil attitude...

Pastor doesn't want to sit the person down since it would hamper the good worship to go back to the tamberine and spoons....

Music Devil flaunts...

Pastor is held hostage...

The whole church is held hostage....

No matter what pastor does to pacify the music devil things escalate....

Finally the blow up takes place....

Music Devil takes his person and goes down the road....

The first service without the music devil attitude peace and sweetness returns to sanctuary...

Pastor kicks himself for allowing himself to be held hostage.....

[Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by rkentsmith

OK....

Pastor has nice church and congregation....

Pastor finally has some "good music"...

Enter the music devil attitude...

Pastor doesn't want to sit the person down since it would hamper the good worship to go back to the tamberine and spoons....

Music Devil flaunts...

Pastor is held hostage...

The whole church is held hostage....

No matter what pastor does to pacify the music devil things escalate....

Finally the blow up takes place....

Music Devil takes his person and goes down the road....

The first service without the music devil attitude peace and sweetness returns to sanctuary...

Pastor kicks himself for allowing himself to be held hostage.....

Here is the flaw in your logic...this doesn't need to reach the pastor stage. A good music director will recognize the problem and take care of the situation before it effects the church. I don't care if all your left with is a song leader and some dude on a juice harp, if they are prayed up and anointed, that is all that is needed. Seriously.

[Digging4Truth]

Perhaps said pastor should stick with tambourine & spoons.

I find this whole conversation to be rather assuming upon people.

There are people with attitude issues in every church, business, club, city park... wherever.

Some of the people happen to play a musical instrument and/or sing.

The musician or singer who gives of himself in the worship services and pours out of himself (oftentimes without any initial response from the congregation and having to push through to a place of freedom of worship) seems to be guilty until proven innocent in this little thread.

I am hopeful that this is not the case but sometimes it sure feels that way.

As has been mentioned here before... I must be missing out on a whole other kind of musician/worship leader etc because those I have had dealings with have been some of the most dedicated, devoted, God loving & selfless people I have known.

But... let the discussion of this fabled "music devil" continue because it certainly is a popular subject with some.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by rkentsmith

OK....

Pastor has nice church and congregation....

Pastor finally has some "good music"...

Enter the music devil attitude...

Pastor doesn't want to sit the person down since it would hamper the good worship to go back to the tamberine and spoons....

Music Devil flaunts...

Pastor is held hostage...

The whole church is held hostage....

No matter what pastor does to pacify the music devil things escalate....

Finally the blow up takes place....

Music Devil takes his person and goes down the road....

The first service without the music devil attitude peace and sweetness returns to sanctuary...

Pastor kicks himself for allowing himself to be held hostage.....

I wish you'd write a normal paragraph.

Okay, so again: What is the "music devil" doing that classifies him as a "devil"? That's the part you're not quantifying very well.

And I agree with MonkeyMan--if there is a musician or singer in the department that is severely out of order, I will speak to them myself. If that doesn't work, then it goes to the pastor. But where is the music director in your scheme of things? Don't they usually handle folks that are out of line?

[rkentsmith]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

Here is the flaw in your logic...this doesn't need to reach the pastor stage. A good music director will recognize the problem and take care of the situation before it effects the church. I don't care if all your left with is a song leader and some dude on a juice harp, if they are prayed up and anointed, that is all that is needed. Seriously.

Nice naive logic monkeyman....

I have spoken with hundreds of pastors who have dealt with the same issue...

So many times it is the music leader that is struggling.....

In a perfect world all music directors are prayed up and keep the dept prayed up.....

IMHO....

The world ain't perfect

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by rkentsmith

Nice naive logic monkeyman....

I have spoken with hundreds of pastors who have dealt with the same issue...

So many times it is the music leader that is struggling.....

In a perfect world all music directors are prayed up and keep the dept prayed up.....

IMHO....

The world ain't perfect

Naive logic?

This is one amazing thread.

I know this much.

Lord... I truly pray that you protect giving and selfless hearts from falling under any leadership that is so convinced of the hearts & souls of those who would give their praise unto your name.

[rkentsmith]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I wish you'd write a normal paragraph.

Okay, so again: What is the "music devil" doing that classifies him as a "devil"? That's the part you're not quantifying very well.

And I agree with MonkeyMan--if there is a musician or singer in the department that is severely out of order, I will speak to them myself. If that doesn't work, then it goes to the pastor. But where is the music director in your scheme of things? Don't they usually handle folks that are out of line?

The music devil is not the person but rather the manefest attitude....

The person is not the devil as the piece clearly states....

The attitude of human spirit of the person is "the devil"

The public display of attitude is very much like a devil...

And so many times it is the leader who is doing such....

After all...

Nobody else in the church is as good as he/she