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[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

But while YOU are acting--their response is REAL. Which is my point: A musician can "control" certain aspects of the worship, such as how quickly folks are moving to the rhythm--but they cannot control hearts and minds and sincerity and honest emotional response or connection. Nor can a musician control the moving of the Spirit. Sorry. Not possible.

God will always respond to anyone that is sincere in reaching out to Him. That doesn't take away from the fact that a musician or a pastor can be in control.

God will override ignorance and reach for a heart that calls out to Him.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

God will always respond to anyone that is sincere in reaching out to Him. That doesn't take away from the fact that a musician or a pastor can be in control.

God will override ignorance and reach for a heart that calls out to Him.

I think that a musician or pastor can be in control of logistics, but they cannot actually control the congregation's sincerity in worship or praise, which seemed to be what the blog author implied--that maybe since the congregation responded to his different intonations, that they were as insincere as he was--and that's the part I'm not buying.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I think that a musician or pastor can be in control of logistics, but they cannot actually control the congregation's sincerity in worship or praise, which seemed to be what the blog author implied--that maybe since the congregation responded to his different intonations, that they were as insincere as he was--and that's the part I'm not buying.

There's a fine line between sincerity and emotionalism. JMHO.

I believe you've heard preachers say they know the "candy stick" that will bring the house down. Certain terms and voice inflections - it does make the people seem insincere and even ignorant to the viewer/controller/manipulator.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

There's a fine line between sincerity and emotionalism. JMHO.

I believe you've heard preachers say they know the "candy stick" that will bring the house down. Certain terms and voice inflections - it does make the people seem insincere and even ignorant to the viewer/controller/manipulator.

Emotions can be evidence of sincerity. I tend to doubt sincerity if there is no emotion attached to it. When my husband says "I love you", or "I'm sorry", I expect there to be some emotion attached, and which one IS attached determines whether or not I believe him. Humans are emotional creatures. Show me an emotionless worshiper and I will show you someone who isn't very passionate about God. If God doesn't cause some kind of response--ANY kind of response--then...well.... That's just how I see it. I do concede that we all respond differently, but there should be a response to God. Furthermore, I don't place singing, dancing and praising God for the sheer joy of it in the category of "emotionalism", and many do. I strongly disagree with that, at least represented in a negative light.

As for the congregation--I think I would go with "naive", because those of us who have been around Pentecost all our lives can see through the "candy stick" in two seconds--but a new convert isn't necessarily going to sense that--they're just going to respond to someone else who is or seems to be excited about the Holy Ghost or Jesus' Name or the Alpha & Omega, Our Deliverer...etc.

I have seen my children genuinely respond to things I would never be moved by--so I guess I'm not so ready to label the congregation as insincere just because the leader is insincere or a closet narcissist. Maybe ignorance is bliss?

[jrLA]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Oh, please. You were more constipated over timlan calling you "son" than anyone on this thread has been about "music devils!"

Ummm...no! You have made another mistake in your judging here! I didn't like the tone that Timlan took on that thread....I still don't. Don't rehash that junk!


I didn't name you Miss B., but looks like that must have hit a nerve there! lol


Got some exlax...sounds like you may need a dose! lol

[Whole Hearted]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

From the article -- now that is just sad. Here's a man that admits it's just emotion sometimes and that he controlled it.

"I was the piano player in a service one night several years ago; we were singing some old Pentecostal worship chorus..."He Set Me Free" or something similar...people were going nuts. At one particular place in the chorus, I would do one of my little Jerry Lee "Killer" runs, and the congregation would "worship" even more frantically. I watched with complete detachment (I wasn't feeling a thing) as "my" music controlled the temperature of the congregation. Almost like a scientist in a lab out to prove a theory, I went into a very passive mode of playing for about two passes of the chorus...the worship toned down, the shouters quit shouting, the jumpers quit jumping...and then, at the appropriate time, WHAM! I did my little "Goodness gracious, great balls 'o' fire!" run and hit the keyboard wide open...The place went absolutely berserk again."

I play the organ every service and I have watch how people respond. If I want to I can to some extent control the worship service. If I keep building and squealing the organ they will worship harder and louder. If I slow it down and go into what I call the Baptist style they will quieten down. Mu

Music is a great part of our service and it can be a great asset or a hindrance.
Who you have in control of the music is very important.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by jrLA

Ummm...no! You have made another mistake in your judging here! I didn't like the tone that Timlan took on that thread....I still don't. Don't rehash that junk!


I didn't name you Miss B., but looks like that must have hit a nerve there! lol

I named myself that, because I know what I am.

Got some exlax...sounds like you may need a dose! lol

No way! Probiotics are the way to go!!! Naked Juice has a new little juice bottle with probiotics--tastes great--works...quite well.

[jrLA]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I named myself that, because I know what I am.




No way! Probiotics are the way to go!!! Naked Juice has a new little juice bottle with probiotics--tastes great--works...quite well.

Good response! Really! lol

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Emotions can be evidence of sincerity. I tend to doubt sincerity if there is no emotion attached to it. When my husband says "I love you", or "I'm sorry", I expect there to be some emotion attached, and which one IS attached determines whether or not I believe him. Humans are emotional creatures. Show me an emotionless worshiper and I will show you someone who isn't very passionate about God. If God doesn't cause some kind of response--ANY kind of response--then...well.... That's just how I see it. I do concede that we all respond differently, but there should be a response to God. Furthermore, I don't place singing, dancing and praising God for the sheer joy of it in the category of "emotionalism", and many do. I strongly disagree with that, at least represented in a negative light.

As for the congregation--I think I would go with "naive", because those of us who have been around Pentecost all our lives can see through the "candy stick" in two seconds--but a new convert isn't necessarily going to sense that--they're just going to respond to someone else who is or seems to be excited about the Holy Ghost or Jesus' Name or the Alpha & Omega, Our Deliverer...etc.

I have seen my children genuinely respond to things I would never be moved by--so I guess I'm not so ready to label the congregation as insincere just because the leader is insincere or a closet narcissist. Maybe ignorance is bliss?

I agree that "naive" is a much better choice of word than "ignorant".

As to the new converts being the only ones that are not aware of the "candy stick" mentality. You are probably right, BUT......

Let me share the story first. You may remember me telling this.

Brother Billy Cole was preaching at BOTT some years ago. He, in a normal tone, said, "God is doing great things."

The audience does not respond.

He elevates his voice. "GOD IS DOING GREAT THINGS!!!"

Loud clapping and verbal response. He talks a little longer and does the whole thing again, beginning with the normal tone of voice. Same exact response.

He then goes on to say, "Do you see what you did? You did not respond to what I said. You responded to how I said it! Someday we will learn."

I have observed through the years that the congregation, largely, is waiting for instructions on when to respond and how to do that. I think it is unfortunate that this occurs.

So, really, the "candy stick" kinda sweeps over the new converts and grabs the seasoned saint. JMHO.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

I play the organ every service and I have watch how people respond. If I want to I can to some extent control the worship service. If I keep building and squealing the organ they will worship harder and louder. If I slow it down and go into what I call the Baptist style they will quieten down. Mu

Music is a great part of our service and it can be a great asset or a hindrance.
Who you have those in control of the music is very important.

Amen!