It's hard to move on, forgive, etc if you are never apologized to. Some Americans minimize the affects of slavery on the black race in America and they completely forget all of the hate, barriers, etc blacks experienced for more than 100 years after the Emancipation. Entire "black" towns destroyed, men, women and children burned alive, pregnant ladies gutted in front of their husbands, black men serving in war returned home only to be lynched-- all happening in the 1900's-- years after we were "freed".
To not expect residual "anger" is just simply not realistic. It has to be dealt with, by every American. This is Obama's point.
This is why he should be our next President: he has enough courage and wisdom to realize that not everything is black and white, cut and dry. I am glad he did not disown Wright and I find what Wright said from the pulpit inexcusable, more than wrong.
this is a touchy subject. One that deserves to be treated with respect.
As a white man from the deep south. I have a little experience with racism. i have looked family members in the eye and told them if they expected to see any of my family (me my wife and children) they would never in our presence speak in a racist manner or use certain words no matter the context.
I have explained to fellow Apostolics in very clear terms that they would bust hell wide open if they didnt get rid of the racism in their hearts.
I make no appology EVER, and I ALWAYS confront it when I see it.
Having lived in Dallas for half my life, and going to a church that is as diverse as any in America, I am fortunate to spend quality time with folk that dont look like me. that have vastly different backgrounds . I am better for it.
I am not shocked at the Reverand Wrights comments. they arent out of line with what is said in many black churches. They represent a sentiment that resides in our country.
News flash folks, as far as we have come from Jim Crow, we arent done with the subjest yet.
1399, I understand the sentiment that it is hard to forgive when you have not been appologized to. I fully understand that feeling.
Many on the other side, find it difficult to understand why they owe an appology for the actions of others who are long dead and gone.
Personally I guess I stand somewhere in the middle. the wrongs are real, but we need to look at the reality. 600,000 Americans died to right the wrong of slavery.
Let me be very clear on this point. The civil war was Gods wrath poured out on this nation for the evil we lived with for 400 years. Beyond that, the failure of Reconstruction was further punishment for the Souths actions.
To this day southern states remain among the poorest in the Union, primarily as a result of the devistation of that war and it's aftermath.
We talk about all the wrong things. We dont talk about the right things.
Does Barak Obama get it? i dont know. I agree he should not disown his pastor and friend. Honestly I dont really care because I dont want him to be president because of what he will do as it relates to taxation, the war on terror, the supreme court...etc.
his race doesnt impact that at all.
I really think we all need to shift some of our views on the issue of race. Both Blacks and whites.
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Let's say this was preached by a white man wearing a suit and tie in an Apostolic church. Would these statements be so shocking? Would we agree with the premise made?
"America" isn't doing those things. People are doing those things.
Right now, the number one killer of black folks are other black folks.
Those black folks are as much a part of America as white folks are.
However, with his statements, he seems to be omitting black folks from being part of America. I don't agree with that assessment.
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good post ferd, and good points, i cant vote for him for those same reasons, i am not a rascist and the history of my family is extremely racist, i understand, dt
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A product of a pentecostal raisin, I am a hard man, just ask my children
time to move on, not all people that moved here in the 1700s had slaves, my family were indentured servants in north carolina for 7 years before given freedom and moving west with the pioneers, good grief, i want some reparations for all that sweat, dt
"By the 1700's court rulings established the racial basis of the American incarnation of slavery to apply chiefly to Africans and people of African descent, and occasionally to Native Americans."
Emancipation Proclamation: 1865
“The evidence is overwhelming that the vast majority of black slaveholders were free men who purchased members of their families or who acted out of benevolence.”
In 1830, the total number of black slave owners was approx. 3,800-- the most it ever was in the USA.
The skin color of the black slaves limited where a freed slave could go (most were never freed and raised their families in slavery, and so on)-- and even when one was freed, they had to look over their shoulder to keep themselves from being kidnapped and thus, enslaved again.
Let's not minimize slavery in America.
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"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 03-19-2008 at 10:40 AM.
Reason: clarity
I do not assume that my German friend hates Jews nor do I feel that they somehow need to make some recompense for what was done long ago.
Why do we live with an ongoing assumption that whites are born with a propensity toward racism? Why do we still require recompense for the deeds of some (not all) nearly a century and a half ago?
We cannot move on from that place in our history until we... move on.
Also.....What about our Poor White President Lincon that was assassinated after thousands of Gallons poor White Blood was spilled over Black Slavery {one of the reasons for the war} in the Civil War?
He said Jesus was Black and the The Romans were Rich White man
C’mon dude. Jesus definitely wasn’t white. Jesus was Middle Eastern and had no European ancestors. Jesus was most definitely dark skinned. I believe he was as dark as most Arabs in Saudi Arabia. And the Romans were European but most likely Mediterranean. Either way, Jesus was a part of a poor minority in a land ruled by wealth and powerful European majority.
When dealing with black folks you sometimes have to dig a bit deeper to find their meaning because they often use terms they are powerfully and personally acquainted with.
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
We have to admit we’ve done them wrong and instead of casting it off because we may not have personally done anything; we have to take responsibility for the actions of our ancestors to some degree. Even if it is only acknowledgement of wrongs committed.
While we can acknowledge that wrongs were committed, they weren't committed against many of the blacks living today. And they weren't committed by me, therefore, I apologize for nothing.
I am both German and Cherokee Indian. I'm not apologizing to the Jews nor to the white man for what my ancestors might have done to them. Am I sorry it happened? Certainly, but I'd feel that way regardless of my ancestry.
The only actions I have to take responsibility for and the only ones I'm accountable for are my own. Not yours, not my granny's, not my kid's. Only mine. And that's regardless what happened to my ancestors.
Jeremiah Wright is responsible for his actions, regardless what his grandparents generations ago went through. He's living in today's world. He should act like it.
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"By the 1700's court rulings established the racial basis of the American incarnation of slavery to apply chiefly to Africans and people of African descent, and occasionally to Native Americans."
Emancipation Proclamation: 1865
“The evidence is overwhelming that the vast majority of black slaveholders were free men who purchased members of their families or who acted out of benevolence.”
In 1830, the total number of black slave owners was approx. 3,800-- the most it ever was in the USA.
The skin color of the black slaves limited where a freed slave could go (most were never freed and raised their families in slavery, and so on)-- and even when one was freed, they had to look over their shoulder to keep themselves from being kidnapped and thus, enslaved again.
Let's not minimize slavery in America.
i think you are on the wrong foot if you are saying i was minimizing slavery, many of us came here for lots of reasons, my folks came for religious freedom, slavery was wrong, and was done away with, that is good, the effects we are still dealing with, but the fact is we can only change one heart at a time, dt
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A product of a pentecostal raisin, I am a hard man, just ask my children
This post makes me cringe!!!!! The fact that the people you are referring to DO NOT see calling me a "N" or "colored" as offensive IS OFFENSIVE!!!
I don't believe I said that YOU weren't offended. I said the people that I personally know in the scenarios I mentioned weren't. Nor did I say they were calling YOU those things.
Quote:
Nothing on you, mind you-- and I am glad we are having this discussion. It only proves Obama's sentiments correct that we have a long way to when it comes to race issues.
The last PUBLIC LYNCHING" was in 1970, in Georgia. Maybe when Michelle Obama made her statement about being proud of America, she was referring to how as a country we have COME SO FAR AS TO HAVE A BLACK MAN NAMED OBAMA as a serious contender for the white house.
As a whole, "Coloreds", and "N" historically was not heard in a positive way by the "Colored" or "N" person who heard it from the mouth of a white person. The "compliments" that may have been given by that white person were taken by a black person who excused their blatant ignorance.
That's possibly true, but I'm just going on what I personally observed.
But let's be honest. How many black folks call each other the N word?
Not that I care what they call one another, but I knew an elder white man who said that word in the pulpit (I'm not sure of his point because of the shock I was feeling at the time), but when he saw the looks on people's faces, he was confused and said, "well, don't they call themselves that word?"
You'll be happy to know that the pastor spoke to him in private later on and gave him some info....LOL! But he honestly didn't think it was offensive because he's heard black people use that word to describe each other, and at over 80 years old....well, he was honestly clueless as to the reasons.
I think that for black folks to use that word among themselves keeps them in a certain mentality instead of rising above it. Until they rise above the oppression they feel, whether real or not, they won't ever get anywhere.
I'm proud of people who can rise out of the ghetto, and that's whether they are black, white, hispanic, or aliens.
Sadly, many of them maintain the welfare mentality they are raised with. It's generational, but not attributed to the white man any longer.
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Jeremiah Wright is responsible for his actions, regardless what his grandparents generations ago went through. He's living in today's world. He should act like it.[/QUOTE]
Jeremiah Wright's statements are rooted in the way he has experienced America. I say again, the last public lynching happened in 1970, in Georgia, well within the adult lifetime of Jeremiah Wright and my Dad.
The anger may have some to do with America's evil past of a century and a half ago. But I bet it has more to do with what he himself has personally experienced in his own country.
That anger, resentment was not publicly disowned by any of the other educated, successful members of that 8,000+ congregation-- why not?
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