ch i have 6 brothers, 5 of them younger than me, that is exactly what i would do to them if they talked like that, pop them on the mellon and discuss it after, lol,dt
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A product of a pentecostal raisin, I am a hard man, just ask my children
Rico, Chosen by One makes the same argument that any number of liberal American Hating College professors have attempted to make since the 1960's.
I have personally debated a couple of them to the point that they just sputtered and shut up.
We arent talking about attitudes toward Japan in 2008. We are talking about the facts on the Ground in 1945 in the days leading up to the first bomb being dropped.
What we knew about Japan remains very clear. Poll results asking the uneducated masses (Most of whom cant tell you who the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court is) doesnt change the simply FACTS.
Both American and Japanese scolars will tell you that the cost of invasion would have been far greater than the losses from Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
There was no serious consideration of an embargo or some kind of Naval Blockade. Considering the size of Japan, the actual lenght the Japanese were willing to go to,
the FACT that in the closing days of the European front, America was very much concerned with a possible front opening against RUSSIA.
The HISTORIC REALITY was that use of the Atomic bomb was deemed necessary.
could we have hit something smaller? sure I suppose we could have. but remember first, Hiroshima was hit before Nagasaki, and that didnt get the Japanese to caputlate.
second, consider that both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were both "something smaller". They were not the main cities of Japan. we could have unleased the bombs on Tokoyo and Yokohama.
and third, the point here isnt that we should or should not have dropped the bomb, but the charge that it was done, according to Jerimiah Wright, without batting an eye! that is an out and out lie.
He needs to be worried about accurate portrayals of history rather than some unknown liberation theology.
As you were probably aware, there remained more than one version of history on any given topic. People have found it easier to believe the official version of many of the significant events of our nation's history, but truth could be found by listening to other sources too.
I wrote earlier in this thread that it was my opinion that Jesus wouldn't have approved killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people regardless of the reason. That was what I believed. Also, I had wrote that our country should have threatened the use of a nuclear bomb before it was actually used on major cities at the end of WWII. Seeking the path of a less violent and destructive end would have demonstrated a more compassionate, humane and peaceful end to that war. With that said, I wanted it to be known that if it were true that the use of the bomb(s) saved the lives of countless US military personnel, then I would have nothing to say on the matter. I served in the military proudly and I believed that the life of every serviceman and woman should be preserved. [/I]
I will try to read the entire post and comment but the above gives me great pause.
clearly you are missing some very large chunks of historic context. Not only did we warn Japan (they didnt believe the warning), but we bombed Hiroshima then waited on the Japanese to surrender, when they did not, we bombed Nagasaki and waited again.
what ever secondary and tertiary sources of history you find, you cannot unfind what was believed to be the acutal situation in 1945.
The factors in mainland Japan were not unlike those that existed in Okinawa. The invasion of Okinawa gave America the understanding of what an invastion of the mainland would cost.
You cannot view historic decisions by looking in hindsight. You must review the decisions based on the understanding of the information held by the decision makers. Truman spent weeks agonizing over the decision and went to his grave wondering if he did the right thing. In it all, he knew that he saved the lives of a million Americans.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Rico, Chosen by One makes the same argument that any number of liberal American Hating College professors have attempted to make since the 1960's.
I have personally debated a couple of them to the point that they just sputtered and shut up.
We arent talking about attitudes toward Japan in 2008. We are talking about the facts on the Ground in 1945 in the days leading up to the first bomb being dropped.
What we knew about Japan remains very clear. Poll results asking the uneducated masses (Most of whom cant tell you who the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court is) doesnt change the simply FACTS.
Both American and Japanese scolars will tell you that the cost of invasion would have been far greater than the losses from Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
There was no serious consideration of an embargo or some kind of Naval Blockade. Considering the size of Japan, the actual lenght the Japanese were willing to go to,
the FACT that in the closing days of the European front, America was very much concerned with a possible front opening against RUSSIA.
The HISTORIC REALITY was that use of the Atomic bomb was deemed necessary.
could we have hit something smaller? sure I suppose we could have. but remember first, Hiroshima was hit before Nagasaki, and that didnt get the Japanese to caputlate.
second, consider that both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were both "something smaller". They were not the main cities of Japan. we could have unleased the bombs on Tokoyo and Yokohama.
and third, the point here isnt that we should or should not have dropped the bomb, but the charge that it was done, according to Jerimiah Wright, without batting an eye! that is an out and out lie.
Brother, neither you nor I was there, and, as I have already pointed out, it's easy to make judgements 60 years after the fact. I can see how someone could include our bombing of these cities as part of their believing that the USA got what it deserved on 9/11. You don't, and I doubt we will be able to convince each other otherwise.
you can look it up all you want it is not a myth that obama stopped wearing the american flag a while back and gave some lame answer when asked about it, dt
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A product of a pentecostal raisin, I am a hard man, just ask my children
NO Rico, LISTEN to what he said. The bombings were listed as events of wanton terrorism as proof that the 9/11 attack was the judement of God for Americans own Terror attacks on others.
"Americas chickens come home to roost"
it wasnt a list of things America has done that killed many more people. it was a list of things in JWs view that America did unjustly to wantonly kill innocent people.
there is a vast different Rico.
How do we know that America's destruction of so many innocents in Japan wasn't a factor in God's wrath visited upon us on 9/11?
Slavery
Dehumanization
Oppression
Abortion
Sodomy
Greed
War Mongering
Bro....I'm not convinced that God wasn't upset when we dropped the bomb backed the shadows of innocent children into the concrete pavement of their school yards.
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"For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for wholeness and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11 (English Standard Version)
You touch my children and see what happens to you!!! I believe we should have dropped a few on Germany too. Anything to save American lives is what I am all about. I could care less about what some women oppressors in the Middle East think about us Americans.
The war with Germany was already over when we dropped the bombs on Japan. Furthermore, there were only two bombs in our arsenal at that time.
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Isaiah 53:5: "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."(KJV)
"God sends no one away empty except those who are full of themselves." Dwight L. Moody
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