What does having the Holy Spirit mean?

[Felicity]

The fact of the matter is .... we can each ask questions the other can't answer but this in no way negates the fact that millions of people will testify to having been born again who haven't spoken in tongues.

Like Sherri said earlier there's no way anyone can persuade us we weren't already in a real and living relationship with Jesus Christ before we received the anointing and power enduement work of the Holy Ghost in our lives with the sign of speaking in tongues.

The emphasis in Acts and in all of the New Testament in regard to salvatoin was on faith and believing and it was too all the way through the rest of the letters written by the Apostles.

[Felicity]

Another fact:

The majority of apostolics are hard pressed to give an affirmative answer when asked the question.......... "Will every believer who never spoke in tongues be lost and spend eternity in hell?"

To me this is clearly indicative of some uncertainty in regard to the doctrine they say they espouse.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Felicity

New birth completion? You mean the baby is stuck in the birth canal for 5-6 years before it's born?

This is the silliest teaching.

What's silly is to limit God in time and not be able to compare the physical to the spiritual. What's even sillier is to not understand what obedience to the Gospel entails. Certainly you know what the Gospel is scripturally defined as?

You're either born again or you're not. You're either walking in darkness or walking in the light. You're either in the kingdom of the devil or in the kingdom of God.

I agree.

There is no "halfway house" --- there are no incomplete births. You either is or you isn't.

Which is why the Lord didn't stay (1) on the cross or (2) in the grave. Neither should those coming to Him.

this in no way negates the fact that millions of people will testify to having been born again who haven't spoken in tongues.

I can stand in my garage and testify that I'm a car, but until I meet the definitions of a car, I'm not one. Same with a new child of God. No death, burial and resurrection ..... no new birth. Bottom line.

Like Sherri said earlier there's no way anyone can persuade us we weren't already in a real and living relationship with Jesus Christ before we received the anointing and power enduement work of the Holy Ghost in our lives with the sign of speaking in tongues.

There are a lot of folks I've not been able to persuade of much simpler issues, Felicity. You can be as sure as you want about being born again before you received the Holy Ghost. There's not much I can do about that, either.

The emphasis in Acts and in all of the New Testament in regard to salvatoin was on faith and believing and it was too all the way through the rest of the letters written by the Apostles.

Throughout both testaments, believing led to obedience. That's faith. Faith saves. Faith leads one to repent, be baptized in the name of the Lord and receive the Holy Ghost.

The majority of apostolics are hard pressed to give an affirmative answer when asked the question.......... "Will every believer who never spoke in tongues be lost and spend eternity in hell?"

To me this is clearly indicative of some uncertainty in regard to the doctrine they say they espouse.

Sorry they won't play your little game with you. Neither will I. If you put people in heaven according to your beliefs, don't you dare criticize someone who WON'T put people in hell. Seems to me that the ones who won't answer you know better than to play God. So should you.

[Felicity]

[QUOTE=OGIA;43705]

Sorry they won't play your little game with you. Neither will I. If you put people in heaven according to your beliefs, don't you dare criticize someone who WON'T put people in hell. Seems to me that the ones who won't answer you know better than to play God. So should you.

No way Jose'. You should be able to give a CLEAR answer when you're asked.

No hedging, no fudging.

Will a person who has never spoken in tongues i.e. received the Spirit baptism spend eternity in hell?

Yes? No?

I can give a very simple and clear answer when it's asked of me. Even the Baptists do much better at this than many apostolics.

[Felicity]

What's silly is to limit God in time and not be able to compare the physical to the spiritual. What's even sillier is to not understand what obedience to the Gospel entails. Certainly you know what the Gospel is scripturally defined as?

Sure I do and nowhere in Scripture is this partial birth theory described.

[Sherri]

[QUOTE=Felicity;43710]

Originally Posted by OGIA

No way Jose'. You should be able to give a CLEAR answer when you're asked.

No hedging, no fudging.

Will a person who has never spoken in tongues i.e. received the Spirit baptism spend eternity in hell?

Yes? No?

I can give a very simple and clear answer when it's asked of me. Even the Baptists do much better at this than many apostolics.

As much as I disagree with Bro. Epley, at least he is clear on this issue. He definitely says they will be in hell; most people just skirt around the question.

[Felicity]

There are a lot of folks I've not been able to persuade of much simpler issues, Felicity. You can be as sure as you want about being born again before you received the Holy Ghost. There's not much I can do about that, either.

That's right sir.

A man with an "argument" is at the mercy of a woman or man with an "experience" that lines up with the Word of God.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Felicity

No way Jose'. You should be able to give a CLEAR answer when you're asked.

You know what my clear answer is?

You'd better obey the Gospel to even get IN this race. Obedience to the gospel is found in Acts 2:38. When you repent and get baptized in the name of the Lord, your sins WILL be remitted. When you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, you WILL speak in tongues. You are THEN born again. Now.........onto maturity and holiness and enduring 'til the end. Withouth those, there's NO heaven.

Like it or not. Accept it or not. You put people in heaven and assume I want to play God with you and put them in hell. Sorry, ain't gonna happen here.

I can give a very simple and clear answer when it's asked of me. Even the Baptists do much better at this than many apostolics.

Most Baptists think they're God, too, huh?

[Felicity]

If someone asks me will they be saved and make heaven if they haven't been born again I tell them they will not make heaven and hell is where they'll spend eternity otherwise.

If they ask me if they have to repent or be lost. I tell them they must repent.

If they ask me if they have to be baptized or be lost. I tell them they must be baptized.

If they ask me if they have to speak in tongues i.e. Spirit baptism I tell them that tongues are not necessary to be saved.

I've heard Baptists on television boldly and clearly tell people that if they are not born again they are damned for eternity.

Ask many apostolics who say they believe you're not born again until you speak in tongues if they'll go to hell if they don't and they avoid the question like all get out.

I find this remarkably odd.

Originally Posted by Felicity

The fact of the matter is .... we can each ask questions the other can't answer but this in no way negates the fact that millions of people will testify to having been born again who haven't spoken in tongues.

Power in numbers? How many of them agree on what being born again really means, or what takes place during the process?

Like Sherri said earlier there's no way anyone can persuade us we weren't already in a real and living relationship with Jesus Christ before we received the anointing and power enduement work of the Holy Ghost in our lives with the sign of speaking in tongues.

Were the disciples not in a relationship as well prior to the culmination of the new birth in Acts 2 that Jesus taught in John 3? What about Cornelius?

The emphasis in Acts and in all of the New Testament in regard to salvation was on faith and believing and it was too all the way through the rest of the letters written by the Apostles.

I disagree, there is much more to it than that. If you truly believe and have faith then obedience is a result and gifts are given.

Speaking of gifts, how can you dissect speaking in tongues from Holy Ghost baptism in light of the Scriptures?

Why do they all speak in tongues as they were filled with the Spirit while a sign of tongues as if on fire sat upon EACH of them if it's not the case with 'some' Christians?

Why does Jesus teach that the phenomenon of the Spirit voice presented in John 3:8 will accompany everyone born of the Spirit? Without a tongue of Spirit utterance, where is the Spirit voice?


Mt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Acts2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

All were filled.....all spake....all tongues of fire as a fulfillment and initial sign. No room for options according to individual opinions and preferences.

"Welcome to the Kingdom of God, may I take your order?"

"Yes, I'll have a Spiritual Baptism according to the New Birth without tongues please, and a half order of fruits...oh and may I have a SuperSize order of gifts of the Spirit also? Thanks!"

This isn't Burger King sister!

P.S. I have your book, still interested?