When a UPC pastor leans towards the WPF...

[Kings Kid]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I think a pastor should be open and honest with his church.

I agree very much that the pastor should be open and honest in this type of situation because it could leave a mark on his minstry if he isn't honest. And also if it isn't shared with the saints I consider it be a type of control.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

That's interesting... I would say if the pastor is going charismatic, he ought to lose the assembly, everything, ect... I think that would be the opinion of most Apostolics. Can you elaborate, though, as to why you see going WPF and charismatic as being actions that should reap the same consequences? What if he wants to go UPC to ALJC (I'm just throwing them out there because they are both longstanding Apostolic denominations, whereas WPF is the new kid on the block)?

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

When a pastor assumes the oversight of a congregation, and then decides to make drastic changes, either to the right or left, or even to another organization, the same rules should apply in every situation, if we are to be consistent.

I understand that you are a zealous young ultracon, and at this point in your young life, you don't see the correlation, but one day you will, hopefully.

[Amos]

Joining the WPF doesn't represent a sharp swing in any direction ideologically, folks.

It is just a change in organizations.

Big difference.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Amos

Joining the WPF doesn't represent a sharp swing in any direction ideologically, folks.

It is just a change in organizations.

Big difference.

Apparently some congregations don't think so........

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Apparently some congregations don't think so........

That may be true.

If they do think so, a pastor would likely be unwise to persist in trying to turn that way.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Amos

That may be true.

If they do think so, a pastor would likely be unwise to persist in trying to turn that way.

Agreed.

My wise pastor told me a few years ago, "When you take over an established congregation, and decide to move the piano from one side of the platform to the other, just move it one inch at a time."

Good advice.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by LadyRev

Does he/she have the right to drag the congregation along?

My opinion is no, he/she does not have that right. Even if he/she "feels the leading of God", I still don't believe they have the right to do this. Nor do I believe its a decision for the "church board". It should be a congregation decision...including those that supposedly are not eligible to vote but attend regularly.

I opened the can so the worms could get out. What think ye?

Disclaimer:
If this has been discussed before, please don't tell me so. I rarely get to be online and therefore I can not keep up with the threads.

When they lean towards the WPF you need to lean towards the door.

[KarenJo]

A Pastor IS NOT A KING OR DICTATOR!!!!!! So in my opinion he does not have the right to dictate a decision like leaving an organization. He has the responsibility to pray, discuss, and allow ALL Church Members to have a voice in making this type of a decision. If they leave the organization that helped the church to grow then they need to pay back what was given to establish that UPC Church. If a Pastor wants to leave then they should go. God Bless Them! But leave the congregation, the land and the money behind. Why should we care who “founded” the church, IT ISN”T THEIR PERSONAL PRIVATE PROPERTY! The purpose of ministry is to serve the people and not the other way around. We have too many churches now days that think of the church as the Family Business. For hundreds of years the church belonged to the community and the Pastor served those in that community. Most didn’t even have a right to vote for things so the decisions were made by the membership. I love the ministry and have such respect for them but good pastors know that it’s not their church, its Gods church and belongs to the congregation and that they have been called to serve the members of that congregation. I was with one of my best buddies Kevin and the Mangun’s along with the POA staff one Sunday Morning in their devotions and Bro. Anthony said to his staff, “We are here only because of those people sitting in the pews, without them, there would be no need for us. Let’s ask God meet the needs of those who are here this morning and pray that we are sensitive to the leading of the spirit.” This impressed me so much! I think that for something like this, God can talk to many people in the congregation about the same things. I know I’ve seen this many times. If God is in it, then he will confirm it! Just my thoughts on this matter!!!!

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by KarenJo

A Pastor IS NOT A KING OR DICTATOR!!!!!! So in my opinion he does not have the right to dictate a decision like leaving an organization. He has the responsibility to pray, discuss, and allow ALL Church Members to have a voice in making this type of a decision. If they leave the organization that helped the church to grow then they need to pay back what was given to establish that UPC Church. If a Pastor wants to leave then they should go. God Bless Them! But leave the congregation, the land and the money behind. Why should we care who “founded” the church, IT ISN”T THEIR PERSONAL PRIVATE PROPERTY! The purpose of ministry is to serve the people and not the other way around. We have too many churches now days that think of the church as the Family Business. For hundreds of years the church belonged to the community and the Pastor served those in that community. Most didn’t even have a right to vote for things so the decisions were made by the membership. I love the ministry and have such respect for them but good pastors know that it’s not their church, its Gods church and belongs to the congregation and that they have been called to serve the members of that congregation. I was with one of my best buddies Kevin and the Mangun’s along with the POA staff one Sunday Morning in their devotions and Bro. Anthony said to his staff, “We are here only because of those people sitting in the pews, without them, there would be no need for us. Let’s ask God meet the needs of those who are here this morning and pray that we are sensitive to the leading of the spirit.” This impressed me so much! I think that for something like this, God can talk to many people in the congregation about the same things. I know I’ve seen this many times. If God is in it, then he will confirm it! Just my thoughts on this matter!!!!

i never once seen any org at outreach and MOST churches are not upc but there pastors are. the only reason are church had the words upc in it was because the card that my pastor carried. so why should the saints say what he carries. if saints are more submisive to an org then to a pastor then let the saint go.

[Blubayou]

OK this conversation has touched on something I have wondered for a couple of years. Who does the building and property that houses the congregation belong to? What happens to it when a pastor and congregation cannot reach a consensus? Is it sold? If so who get the money?