Charismatic Apostolic

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Most certainly it does. The True anointing (not personal talents and abilities) will not flow is there is such sin in the church, not talking here about visitors either.

I am Johnny come lately to this one I see.

With all do respect, GET A LIFE.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Could you try and be a little more "perfect" in your method of quoting my posts? If you need help you can page an admin, though at this hour you might as well wait until morning. It's getting to be bedtime for me. I wish you well and hope that you have an excellent weekend.

Pelathais,

I wish you well also.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Fact is,the Holy Ghost will just fall on many and they can do many wonderful works,that don't mean they are filled or God knows them.

Math.7:12: Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13: Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16: Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17: Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18: A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19: Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20: Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

.....and here we go again. Yawwwwwwwwwn!

[Michael The Disciple]

I consider the Spirit filled community as those among Apostolic, Pentecostal or Charismatic groups who have received the Holy Spirit in truth.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Joelel

This Is a very important subject concerning our dress and the owning of worldly things. The scripture teaches love not the world or the things of the world, If any person loves the world and the things of the world the love of the father is not in him.

The scripture Is very clear about we are not to dress ourselves in anything that is expensive. If we are not to dress in expensive dress then we are not to own anything expensive. We are also not to own anything we don't need.

The bible say with food and raiment we are to be content.In the bible using the word gold we understand that we are not to dress in expensive dress. A meek spirit don't wear or own expensive things.

Note here the scripture says gold and pearls or costly array. It don't say jewelry, although jewelry is extreme dressing and a lot is costly.We are to sell everything we don't have need of and give to the poor.

I wonder why people let their hair grow long and then turn around and interweave and knott it.Also they wear their expensive apparel.

1 Peter 3:3: Whose adorning( Dressing) let it not be that outward adorning( Dressing) of plaiting the hair, (Interweaving and knotting of the hair) and of wearing of gold,(Expensive things) or of putting on of (expensive) apparel: But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

1 Tim.2:9: In like manner also, that women adorn (Dress) themselves in modest (descent,not extreme) apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Acts2:44: And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45: And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need

Acts4:32: And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33: And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34: Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35: And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

1 Tim.5: Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.6: But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7: For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.8: And having food and raiment let us be therewith content

Math.6:19: Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:20: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

1 Tim.6:17] Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;[18] That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;[19] Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life

Borrrrrrrrrrrrrrring!!!!!!!

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I consider the Spirit filled community as those among Apostolic, Pentecostal or Charismatic groups who have received the Holy Spirit in truth.

May I ask who's truth? So many think they have the only truth and my truth or your truth is not good enough. Are we to leave truth open and be willing to accept any and all that receive the Holy Spirit?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by jaxfam6

May I ask who's truth? So many think they have the only truth and my truth or your truth is not good enough. Are we to leave truth open and be willing to accept any and all that receive the Holy Spirit?

I start here. If someone tells me they have received the Spirit my first inclination is to believe them. If I have opportunity to talk with them deeper I may be more or less convinced.

If I have opportunity to know them over time it gets more clear whether they have the Spirit of Christ. We know Spirit filled people by their fruits. We also know sometimes it may be a while before the fruit is apparent.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I don't understand the your question.

Consider 1 John 3:2. What I will become when I am truly "like" Him won't have anything to do with my striving against sin. It will be a result of His appearance and something that happens then that I probably won't have a lot of power over.

In the meantime, yes, we are to seek to be more and more like Him. But to use the English word "perfect" here seems to be hubristic to me. We are not as perfect as God is. Plain and simple, unless you want to constantly state that you are actually using the word "perfect" in some specialized way and with your own special definitions. In which case it's probably better to just use a different word.

We are to walk as Christ walked. He is our example in all things. We have the same baptism Christ had, we are filled with the Holy Spirit just as He was. My question has to do with, as you said, "striving against sin" and can we live an overcoming life just as Christ did....a life above sin empowered by the Spirit Is it possible?

Or did Christ succeed in living a sinless life because He was God? If that is true, then it would be impossible for us to live an overcoming life because we are not God. I don't think Christ relied on His divine powers to overcome the temptations of the flesh and of the eyes, etc. but fully trusted in His Father in all things.

I'm not trying to compare us to God the Father and the purity of God but God in his manifestion as a man in which He calls us, brethren. In which, though still pure because He was without sin, He has set an example to which we strive to be like.

I haven't used the word, perfection, at all. Are you equating perfection with lack of sin? I'm speaking to a life that is overcoming, overcoming our faults, overcoming the struggles of the flesh and mind, overcoming the enemy of our souls..etc. A life in which we are attempting to be Spiritually minded and not carnally minded. I just finished reading a good analogy of different stages in our growth in Christ being compared to fruit. The fruit is perfect at each stage in development. Well, I'm sure you've heard it all before.... How do you interpret what is meant by being perfect? complete? mature?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The King James may even be less than "perfect" in even translating the underlying Greek words into "perfection." The NIV uses "maturity." I think this rendering avoids some of the hill-billy theology that I describe and that you appear to have been fortunate enough to have avoided.

I take that to mean the KJV leads to hillbilly theology.

Only if it's a hill billy reading it.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

It is the use of the English word "perfect" that seems to cause some grief here; and I would argue that since Jesus didn't speak English during His eartly ministry and since there are better words than what the KJV uses here - why not use those words.

People wilt under the pressure of trying to be "perfect." However, if we say that there is a process of maturity that we all go through - then it's not so bad. The final goal may be the same, but I think I can make a journey that is comprised of doable steps; where I would fail if I had to suddenly become "perfect."

I see the English perfect like this:

My car was designed by its maker to run perfect or without fault. If it DOES it is only doing what is was designed to do. If it gets a funny noise or a wobble of some kind in it I know it needs work. I get the work done bringing it back to its perfect condition.

God has made the new creation in such a way that we can do all that his will requires. If we do not we are not being diligent to follow/abide in Christ. We must return to that place we were without sin.

This is the easiest doctrine I know of to teach from scripture. Its overwhelming in its scope yet not to difficult for the disciple to folow through with.

A big amen,I think I can understand that,I'm a new creation and if I get a flat,I'll fix it.I don't run to good on a flat.Some people don't fix flats though.