AFF apostolic or not?

[Pastor DTSalaz]

Oh by the way I do read trinitarian books and listen to trinitarian music. OOPS I saw a post of some ultra conservative Apostolics that will not fellowship with anybody else, but were running down to hear some artists at Bishop Blakes that were not Apostolic. I hope they don't have their music on their Ipods or their CDs in their cars they might get contaminated

[Pastor DTSalaz]

By the way don't we read many commentaries, books, leadership manuals and History books in our libraries and on our shelves. What do many of our Bible College Courses teach out of? God forbid that anybody should go to secular a college or university with all of their humanistic thinking we might get unholy. How many of our ministers have gone on to get degrees from Fuller, Dallas T, Biola U., Moody and the such furthering their edumacation. Without losing out on their hold of Apostolic teachings?

[Narrow Is The Way]

Pastor Salaz, You do have some good info. in your posts. Since you just stumbled upon this forum let me tell you exactly what is going on here. This forum is a mixture of a lot of different things. There are many people here who once held to certain standards but have dropped them like a hot potato. These are men and women who are walking away from the light. They are not walking towards the light. If you mention a particular standard or conviction that you hold, they begin to mock and make fun of those types of things. You mentioned the standards of new converts. There is a difference between new converts that are daily learning what truth and holiness is all about, and those that are here on this forum that have no respect whatsoever for standards or convictions. If you have new converts, I would recommend they get nowhere near this forum. Most here don't believe that God uses the five fold ministry in the church today. They think that if it is not black and white in the Bible that you should just keep your standard to yourself. They don't believe in scriptural principles. If you mention a particular standard you are automatically considered judgmental. Have you noticed that any conservative position gets butchered and cut into pieces? Then they say that we are the ones that take sledge hammers to little knats. There are preachers here on this forum that used to preach holiness. Now they think you are crazy for still holding to the things THEY USED TO PREACH THEMSELVES. DIDN'T THEY USE SCRIPTURE WHEN THEY PREACHED IT MANY YEARS AGO? Now they want the conservatives to find their own forum because we make them uncomfortable. They are really under conviction but they mask it with insults. Trust me, when conservatives leave this forum it will go back to threads like ...your favorite tv show.... or something of that nature. Very carnal. I don't know you pastor Salaz but if you have any convictions whatsoever they will dice you up into little pieces. They will find a loop hole somewhere. One genius asked me if it was wrong for a woman to have a skirt as long as a mans pants. See the mentality? This was asked because I mentioned a pair of shorts pertaining to a woman because of the shorter length. Did not think they would stoop that low. Their arguments are like swiss cheese, FULL OF HOLES but if you have a supposed hairline crack they will try to plunge through it like there is a pot of gold on the other side. If you have a strong standard they don't want to hear it, but they will get on here and promote praise dancing, strobe lights in apostolic services, and don't you dare say anything about it. If you want friends, this is probably a pretty good place. If you want apostolic friends you need to put about 75% of these guys on ignore.

Many ask why conservatives even bother to come around here.

My first reaction to this forum was shock. I could not believe the things that people did and believed in and still called themselves apostolic, so my first reaction was to earnestly contend for the faith. Maybe I won't help these that are here but maybe there is a visitor (non poster) that sees this side of the position and wants to sincerely change.

My concern for many here is that the Lord himself has sent them a strong delusion that they would believe a lie and be dammed. It is one thing to be deceived by the devil, it is another to be deceived by God himself. If that is the case no amount of posting is going to help any here. I hope and pray that is not the case.

Don't fall into their trap and become like them.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Narrow Is The Way

Ok. So nobody wants to give up their shorts so I will ask you when it becomes sin. You don't seem to like lines so I would like your response prax. If a man wears his shorts 6" above his ankles is that wrong? 12" is that wrong? 6" above his knee, is that wrong? Where do you draw the line? I am sure you have a line somewhere there prax. You don't think that a man or woman can walk around in their undergarments do you? So where is your line prax. Tell us what you think is sin? I believe a mans pants should be long. Where do you stand prax.? Don't try to go around the question either. Tell us where a man can wear his garment and it be a sin in your eyes. Don't be afraid to tell us where you stand.

Dude, you need an attitude shift. Where do you get "you don't seem to like lines" just because I am ok with shorts that are below the knees? you came here shooting off at both barrels with an attitude.

As for sin, I will leave the judgment and condemnation to you guys.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Narrow Is The Way

Pastor Salaz, You do have some good info. in your posts. Since you just stumbled upon this forum let me tell you exactly what is going on here. This forum is a mixture of a lot of different things. There are many people here who once held to certain standards but have dropped them like a hot potato. These are men and women who are walking away from the light. They are not walking towards the light. If you mention a particular standard or conviction that you hold, they begin to mock and make fun of those types of things. You mentioned the standards of new converts. There is a difference between new converts that are daily learning what truth and holiness is all about, and those that are here on this forum that have no respect whatsoever for standards or convictions. If you have new converts, I would recommend they get nowhere near this forum. Most here don't believe that God uses the five fold ministry in the church today. They think that if it is not black and white in the Bible that you should just keep your standard to yourself. They don't believe in scriptural principles. If you mention a particular standard you are automatically considered judgmental. Have you noticed that any conservative position gets butchered and cut into pieces? Then they say that we are the ones that take sledge hammers to little knats. There are preachers here on this forum that used to preach holiness. Now they think you are crazy for still holding to the things THEY USED TO PREACH THEMSELVES. DIDN'T THEY USE SCRIPTURE WHEN THEY PREACHED IT MANY YEARS AGO? Now they want the conservatives to find their own forum because we make them uncomfortable. They are really under conviction but they mask it with insults. Trust me, when conservatives leave this forum it will go back to threads like ...your favorite tv show.... or something of that nature. Very carnal. I don't know you pastor Salaz but if you have any convictions whatsoever they will dice you up into little pieces. They will find a loop hole somewhere. One genius asked me if it was wrong for a woman to have a skirt as long as a mans pants. See the mentality? This was asked because I mentioned a pair of shorts pertaining to a woman because of the shorter length. Did not think they would stoop that low. Their arguments are like swiss cheese, FULL OF HOLES but if you have a supposed hairline crack they will try to plunge through it like there is a pot of gold on the other side. If you have a strong standard they don't want to hear it, but they will get on here and promote praise dancing, strobe lights in apostolic services, and don't you dare say anything about it. If you want friends, this is probably a pretty good place. If you want apostolic friends you need to put about 75% of these guys on ignore.

Many ask why conservatives even bother to come around here.

My first reaction to this forum was shock. I could not believe the things that people did and believed in and still called themselves apostolic, so my first reaction was to earnestly contend for the faith. Maybe I won't help these that are here but maybe there is a visitor (non poster) that sees this side of the position and wants to sincerely change.

My concern for many here is that the Lord himself has sent them a strong delusion that they would believe a lie and be dammed. It is one thing to be deceived by the devil, it is another to be deceived by God himself. If that is the case no amount of posting is going to help any here. I hope and pray that is not the case.

Don't fall into their trap and become like them.

Jesus is the light. YOUR version of outward Holiness is not.

You never know though, maybe your phariseeism is a strong delusion on your part.

[Narrow Is The Way]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Dude, you need an attitude shift. Where do you get "you don't seem to like lines" just because I am ok with shorts that are below the knees? you came here shooting off at both barrels with an attitude.

As for sin, I will leave the judgment and condemnation to you guys.

No surprise to this response. Will not answer the question directly and then goes to the "you have an attitude card" Prax. you need to calm down. Your anger and frustration is bulging out of everybodys computer. I get: "you don't seem to like lines" from about 99% of your posts.

Wait a minute prax. did you say that you are ok with shorts below the knees? You aren't using that knee as your line are you? Just checking.

[Narrow Is The Way]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Jesus is the light. YOUR version of outward Holiness is not.

You never know though, maybe your phariseeism is a strong delusion on your part.

Nice phariseeism blast. I thought you said that you leave the judgment and condemnation to us. Guess not. You are not being a sweet loving Lib.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Narrow Is The Way

No surprise to this response. Will not answer the question directly and then goes to the "you have an attitude card" Prax. you need to calm down. Your anger and frustration is bulging out of everybodys computer. I get: "you don't seem to like lines" from about 99% of your posts.

Wait a minute prax. did you say that you are ok with shorts below the knees? You aren't using that knee as your line are you? Just checking.

now that is a compelling argument Prax. Do you have a place
where you draw a line and say it's wrong to go shorter ?
what if someone else's rule was just 6in below the waist for
shorts ?

[Pastor DTSalaz]

Narrow is the Way

I am not afraid to stand up for what I believe is truth and can give substantiated evidence for it from the Word of God. I can say that I grew up Apostolic and am a third generation Apostolic. It was preached then as it is now in some circles against Television. The Principle that much evil is being propagated is understood though no scriptural evidence can be given as there was no way to speak out against what was unknown. This same thing was preached in regards to radio. For the only thing that was aired was worldly music and programs. This then began to be used a a tool to propagate the gospel and soon the preaching subsided. Now almost everyone who drives a car has a CD player and radio in it.

I can even recall a time when some Brother was so full of Zeal he went and broke a Sisters antenna and prayed over her car because she had a radio in her car. Kind of reminds me of some sisters whose Pastor preaches against ladies wearing short sleeve blouses, when they saw a sister who was wearing short sleeves to the middle of her upper arm, ran over to her in Wal-Mart and began praying her through the Holy Ghost. She decided to move to another church in Northern California after this incident.

We could laugh about those things now that radio is accepted. Then it was a hell fire and brimstone issue. The same thing applies to television we can use it as a tool to reach the lost. What matters most is what is in your heart. If your heart is unrepented and unconverted you will seek evil wherever it is. The exterior can be a facade covering what is on the inside. I watch Television and control it. It does not control me. The same thing with the computer that you are using. If your heart is wrong you and I will hide late at night when our children and wives go to bed we will see things that we ought not to be seeing. This tool is in your hands use it for work, communicating, study, research, and even for chatting. The evil is when it begins to control you and you should be doing something else for the Lord, your family, witnessing and you are drawn back to try and prove how righteous you are by way of the AFF. To him that knoweth to do right and doeth it not to him it is SIN!

Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.


Money is a tool. In the right hands it can be used to buy food for a family, tracts, bible study material, good gospel music, DVDs for your monitor (haha), or to build a church. The same money in the wrong hands can be used to buy alcohol, drugs, illicit sex, weapons, worldly music and every evil imaginable. The object is not what is at fault it is the individual. Shall we stop using money because It is used for so much evil? Then get rid of your car too. It can take you to work, service, the store, vacation and be enjoyed. It can and does lead somebodies feet swiftly into evil. God gave us this earth to enjoy this is my garden of eden and my Kingdom of God. I will enjoy its every resource so long as it does not offend my God. Our example is when God placed Adam and Eve in the Garden he did not remove the tree of knowledge from it ,this was placed there to try the heart. He told them to dress and keep it, subdue and have dominion over it. The potential for evil was there but love for God keeps us from doing what offends Him. I have the potential to drink, take illicit drugs, commit adultery, lie, steal, and cheat and who is there to stop me. I have free will. In order to prove my love (not to be or remain saved) I voluntarily abstain from doing those things. My faith saves me not all the external things you think save you. All that we do in order to show our love, our works in other words, only prove that our faith is real. As I draw closer to God he reveals to me as I mature what things I must leave behind. There are not only sins but weights that I cast off in order to please him.

This does not preclude My need for repentance, baptism, and Holy Ghost infilling. If my faith is real and genuine then the evidence for my faith must be shown by my action. My actions do not now or ever save me they only reveal that my profession of faith was real. I cannot now or ever trust in a deathbed repentance because I am not God to know if the confession was real. As an Apostolic my only recourse is to to watch the life to see if what was professed is possessed. Perfection in a believer, No. No Just as in a marriage an earnest desire to get to know my partner and as it is revealed over time what pleases her will change my pattern of behavior to reflect my love for her.

I hope this answers your question of why I am able to watch television without guilt and condemnation. My motto

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

May God Bless You richly my Brother in Christ

[Narrow Is The Way]

Well, I am not going to pull you away from your television. You have pretty much made up your mind that it is ok. You cannot filter it though. It is a moving device, television filters are not prophets. An internet filter knows the page you are headed into. Without a filter this internet is deadly. I work on the net and post on this forum, that is about all I would recommend any apostolic do. You can get your news out of a paper. I sure wouldn't have a television, what purpose does it serve? What will you lose if you kick it out the back door. Nothing. Money serves a purpose, sadly the internet is intertwined into our lives and it serves a purpose. A vehicle serves a purpose just like a horse and buggy used to. A television serves no purpose at all. You have purposely brought those billboards and advertisements that you try not to look at on the freeway, right into your home. Now it is worse because you have suggestive selling from the world. I don't understand why someone would criticize a conservative for having the internet when they have both an internet and a television. Does not make since to me.

This is not to boast as I will say that I do not do enought of this, but I went out on the streets today in near 100 degree temperature and did outreach. How easy it would have been to sit at home and let the television do the job. If we should reach the world by any means possible then why stop at television. Dress up and go to your local night club, have a bikini contest, have a beer fest, that will get a crowd.

I am saying don't criticize a conservative because he chooses to draw a line farther out there than you do. Don't get on here and call us judgmental, when you yourself (not you pastor salaz) also make judgments regarding the essentiallity of salvation.

Why do you go out on outreach. Because people are lost. How do you know? You have taken biblical doctrine and principles and made a judgment that people are going to hell. I don't call you judgmental because you do that. I call you sensitive to the word.

Where do you draw the line? Or do we just keep our opinions to ourselves. Imagine if the Apostle Paul would have never had given an opinion regarding holiness.

David left the fold to go capture one lamb because he understood that if he did not take a stand the enemy would just be back again for another one, pretty soon the enemy would have taken all of them had he not taken a stand at some point. David chose to take a stand the first time it happened. Did this make David a coward? Many on this forum say that our standards are based upon fear. Was David full of fear because he took a stand?

If we let our guard down on things that would seem insignificant (like one little lamb) then the enemy will be back tomorrow for another one, and then another. How long will you let the devil steal your standards with silly justifications. Mark my word, it won't be long before you are questioning whether baptism in Jesus name is essential. Don't believe me? Read around this forum a little while. It is happening before our very eyes. It all starts will little insignificant things that are not dealt with from the start and then the devil has your very soul.

The devil doesn't appear in a red suit with a pitchfork in his hands when he is trying to convince you that this apostolic way is wrong. He starts with just one little lamb because he knows he can make inroads to your soul slowly but surely. Just read around this forum a little bit, you will find questioning of water baptism in Jesus name, the essentiallity of the Holy Ghost, and many other things. It all started with a spirit of "don't tell me how to live" I can have a television if I want, I can cut my hair, I can wear jewelry, make-up, all those so called little lambs you know.