Wine For Medicinal Purposes ? - Page 8

Aquila · #71 07-14-2008, 10:41 PM

Half of my wife's family is Jewish. Most don't realize this but the Last Supper was a meal in preparation for the passover, and Seder wine was used. Seder wine is required by Jewish law to be alcoholic. If Jesus kept the Jewish customs of his day...he drank alcoholic wine.

Those that try to draw a strong distinction between fermented and unfermented based on mere word studies are oversimplifying a more complex hermeneutic. The "new wine" and words they associate with "grape juice" are often used for both unfermented and fermented wines up to weeks of ages. I believe it was that a wine could be considered oinos for up to a year, if my memory serves me correctly. Also it's important to note that while some went through an extensive process to keep wine from fermenting, the purpose wasn't to provide unfermented wine...but to preserve the wine for use. The majority of wine in the ancient world wasn't subjected to these processes. In fact they didn't have pasturization as we know it today (like with Welch's). In fact wine began the fermentation process rather quickly and was considered fermented often within six hours of the wine press.

There's so much that goes into this there's an entire CULTURE of detail about this, and once one is familiar with it the simple little word studies and claims that Jesus drank grape juice and that the Bible condemns all alcoholic beverages seems a bit silly.

However, the Bible always condemns drunkenness.

Drunkenness is to wine what gluttony is to food. Neither wine or food are sinful in and of themselves...it's drunkenness and gluttony that we have to guard against.

Jermyn Davidson · #72 07-14-2008, 10:42 PM

Mary Jane definitely has medicinal uses.

Is it ok to smoke a little "herb"-- it's naturally good for you!

God created it, so it must be good. My family and I will drink wine with our meals and light up a joint with out dessert. We'll do this behind closed doors, so as to not cause my brother to trip up on my liberty!

Aquila · #73 07-14-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1399

So, I am reading that Holy Ghost filled, seasoned Christians are telling me it's ok to drink a little wine-- just don't get drunk.

Eat a little food, but don't over eat-- just don't get fat.

If wine is ok in moderation, would Rum and Coke be permissible?

How about just Rum-- as long as I don't get drunk?

Really, I don't like wine, but I do like Guinness. So it's ok to drink Guinness?

When I tried to enjoy my last beer, it wasn't enjoyable-- but maybe it will be now that I know I can have my beer and still go to Heaven!

Guys, we have to draw a line somewhere-- or else all becomes lunacy!

The line is drunkenness and over indulgence. I just had a glass of Riesling within the past 20 minutes. I'm not drunk nor is my thinking clouded. I'm feeling nice and about to check into bed though.

....if I can pull myself from a real addiction....AFF! LOL

MikeinAR · #74 07-14-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1399

Guys, we have to draw a line somewhere-- or else all becomes lunacy!

I agree that lines have to be drawn. I've drawn them for reasons that I've explained in this thread, but what boundaries are you suggesting we use? If we want to ignore the scriptural accounts of wine drinking in the old and new testament and Jesus first miracle, then I guess we can call all alcoholic beverages drank in any amount sin.

IMO, that would get back to the adding to thing we were talking about.

MikeinAR · #75 07-14-2008, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Most don't realize this but the Last Supper was a meal in preparation for the passover, and Seder wine was used. Seder wine is required by Jewish law to be alcoholic. If Jesus kept the Jewish customs of his day...he drank alcoholic wine.

Absolutely, 100%, irrefutably correct.

Aquila · #76 07-14-2008, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1399

Mary Jane definitely has medicinal uses.

Is it ok to smoke a little "herb"-- it's naturally good for you!

God created it, so it must be good. My family and I will drink wine with our meals and light up a joint with out dessert. We'll do this behind closed doors, so as to not cause my brother to trip up on my liberty!

That's ludicrous. Pot is illegal. Alcohol isn't. I've smoked pot when I was younger, I just had a glass of wine a few minutes ago. Let me tell you bro from personal experience...the wine isn't a big deal. The dope...now that's not smart.

However, you mentioned medicinal uses. I believe that God made marijuana. I believe it's abused. If harvested and properly used it may have some medicinal value. But as long as it's illegal and as long as people are abusing it...steer clear unless under legal prescription and direction of a doctor.

Jermyn Davidson · #77 07-14-2008, 10:49 PM

light salad = healthy
weak wine = biblically sound

Big Mac's = fat body
Henessy = drunkard

Or is it ok to practice building my wine guzzling skills to get to the point where Henessy doesn't make me drunk?

Aquila · #78 07-14-2008, 10:56 PM

I say avoid drunkenness. Avoid gluttony. Avoid overindulgence in anything. If you can't control yourself, avoid alcohol.

When I'm a grandpa, I won't care what they say. On some rainy Saturday mornings I'm going to go out to the back porch, spend some time in prayer and study the Word...with a nice warm pipe and a glass of brandy. I'm going to smile and thank God for blessing me with a life so wondrous and a freedom so scandalous...it blinds those who say they can see.

God bless. And goodnight.

Jermyn Davidson · #79 07-14-2008, 11:02 PM

This is why we need Pastors and other spiritual people in the church to guide folks with Biblical principles-- doing so with love and concern for our never dying souls.

It can be a slippery slope for A LOT of people-- advising them Biblically that it's ok to drink a little wine.

If wine is ok, beer becomes justifiable. Beer becomes justifiable, rock gut liquor is much more affordable than beer.

Schlitz Malt Liquor is good for Christians to drink at the times of fellowship after evening service-- mixed with a little Red Bull and we can all drive home!

If our brothers and sisters began to drink like they SOME of them eat, we wouldn't have a church!

We'd have a congregation extremely overweight drunk Christians!

Alcohol does have adverse affects on health, especially when it is overindulged. But since it is addictive in nature, it could lead to overindulgence-- much quicker than a person developing a MT Dew addiction.

The Mt Dew addiction is bad, but not as unhealthy as an alcohol addiction, I'd say.

Just Say No To Drugs AND Alcohol.

Jermyn Davidson · #80 07-14-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

I say avoid drunkenness. Avoid gluttony. Avoid overindulgence in anything. If you can't control yourself, avoid alcohol.

When I'm a grandpa, I won't care what they say. On some rainy Saturday mornings I'm going to go out to the back porch, spend some time in prayer and study the Word...with a nice warm pipe and a glass of brandy. I'm going to smile and thank God for blessing me with a life so wondrous and a freedom so scandalous...it blinds those who say they can see.

God bless. And goodnight.

Why wait!? You can have your brandy right now! Your brandy, your Bible, on your back porch with your shot gun, spittin some tobaccy-- now this is what Christian freedom is all about!

Free to be different, free to be changed-- but I CHOOSE not to be different or changed. That does not sit well with me.

As much as I'd really enjoy the idea that drinking Guinness isn't a negative reflection on my walk with God, somehow I think it is. But maybe this is just MY conviction and maybe, maybe the Bible does justify the moderate consumption of alcohol. I'd rather just not drink.

Please don't be offended. If you're ever in the DC/Baltimore area, maybe we can hang out-- you with your brandy, me with my sweet tea. But we could hang out.