P.S. to clear up the emotional reaction of Rico's reply to me, I NEVER called these peoples ***Faith*** UNGODLY. I did call the ***doctrine*** that they espouse UNGODLY and it IS as it leads to the untimely deaths, NOT DISFIGUREMENT BUT DEATH of many MANY people especially in that circle of fellowship that Rico references INCLUDING the deaths of many helpless babies whose parents have been led one way or another through the men you mention to NOT have medical attention at delivery and you MUST KNOW THIS!
Speak up about this error in judgement even if you chose to do so in more moderate terms, but again there is blood every where around this movement that claims to "TRUST THE LORD" of people who died needlessly because they had been led to believe that by refusing medical assistance they had chosen a HIGHER road of FAITH. Husbandless wives, fatherless kids, and ***I**** have a "STINKING ATTITUDE" because I speak up against that.
P.S. to clear up the emotional reaction of Rico's reply to me, I NEVER called these peoples ***Faith*** UNGODLY. I did call the ***doctrine*** that they espouse UNGODLY and it IS as it leads to the untimely deaths, NOT DISFIGUREMENT BUT DEATH of many MANY people especially in that circle of fellowship that Rico references INCLUDING the deaths of many helpless babies whose parents have been led one way or another through the men you mention to NOT have medical attention at delivery and you MUST KNOW THIS!
Speak up about this error in judgement even if you chose to do so in more moderate terms, but again there is blood every where around this movement that claims to "TRUST THE LORD" of people who died needlessly because they had been led to believe that by refusing medical assistance they had chosen a HIGHER road of FAITH. Husbandless wives, fatherless kids, and ***I**** have a "STINKING ATTITUDE" because I speak up against that.
Go figure....
missplaced faith just might be ungodly. the death of innocents certainly is.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
missplaced faith just might be ungodly. the death of innocents certainly is.
It most certainly IS and you know who the people who lead the saints to take these kind of stances are??? Those in leadership who proclaim that THEY are trusting the Lord! As I said in an earlier post there are people out there right now whose KIDS are dead because of this example in leadership! They THOUGHT they were taking the FAITH road, the SPIRITUAL road , but actually it was the road to ruin. Its not TRUSTING the Lord, its actually TEMPTING him. (Put that in your pipe and smoke it)
P.S. to clear up the emotional reaction of Rico's reply to me, I NEVER called these peoples ***Faith*** UNGODLY. I did call the ***doctrine*** that they espouse UNGODLY and it IS as it leads to the untimely deaths, NOT DISFIGUREMENT BUT DEATH of many MANY people especially in that circle of fellowship that Rico references INCLUDING the deaths of many helpless babies whose parents have been led one way or another through the men you mention to NOT have medical attention at delivery and you MUST KNOW THIS!
Speak up about this error in judgement even if you chose to do so in more moderate terms, but again there is blood every where around this movement that claims to "TRUST THE LORD" of people who died needlessly because they had been led to believe that by refusing medical assistance they had chosen a HIGHER road of FAITH. Husbandless wives, fatherless kids, and ***I**** have a "STINKING ATTITUDE" because I speak up against that.
Go figure....
Let's see. Did you also not mean it when you called these people idiots? Don't try to backpeddle now.
Let's see. Did you also not mean it when you called these people idiots? Don't try to backpeddle now.
See post 729. I apologized for calling them idiots, however the deaths that have happened due to their misguided example call for perhaps stronger words (And definitely for stronger actions, MOST definitely) than *I* have written and I think down in your heart you must know that.
See post 729. I apologized for calling them idiots, however the deaths that have happened due to their misguided example call for perhaps stronger words (And definitely for stronger actions, MOST definitely) than *I* have written and I think down in your heart you must know that.
TCSQ, I don't have the first problem with someone going to see a doctor. I also think some of these people die when they didn't have to. We are in agreement on that part. What I disagree with is calling their faith, this doctrine, this belief (whatever you want to call it) ungodly, and referring to these people as idiots for the stand they've taken. I think it's a very courageous stand to take. I've been healed of things when I trusted God over them, and I've gone to doctors too. Deciding which route to go is a tough decision for many Christians to make.
There is no mandate to breath Rico, but we all agree that refusal to do so is dertimental to ones over all health.... helping another to not breath will land you in the pokey.
I see very litte difference between these two things.
you may chose to equivicate if you wish. It is a sin. period. end of story.
End of story? I didn't realize that God has now appointed you the "end of story" determiner.
I completely stand by my position, I do apologize for calling people idiots, however idiotic their choices.
However the example shown in this matter by those you quote was HORRIFIC and MUST be spoken against as there are so many impressionable YOUNG men and women who follow said example. (You even refer to them NEEDING to follow that example! Can you see how DEADLY such a course would be??? I don't think you do.)
Brother, this is a choice people need to make for themselves. What I was referring to was people seeing someone stand by their beliefs, even in the face of death. If you don't see that as a good example to set for others, then let's rip out any references to people who have died for their faith in history books.
There is no glory in taking a foolish position, and no glory in venerating someone BECAUSE of the foolish position they took THAT LED TO THEIR ****DEATH*****.
God gets the glory whether He heals someone or not. You don't seem to understand that people who go this route have a level of trust in God that most of will never see. Think about the battle these people go through when they realize God isn't going to heal them. You or I can not even begin to imagine how hard maintaining that kind of trust would be. It's easy for you to go on and on about how foolish you think this belief is, but it takes real guts to stay firm knowing that death is immenent. It takes no guts whatsoever to criticize them
You loved the man you mentioned, and I am sure he was a great man, I am not speaking against HIM but rather against the grossly destructive example he chose to give those who look to him and his life for leadership.
I was very angry when Brother Campbell died. I felt like there was much more he could have accomplished had he lived. However, I realized that for him to go to a doctor would result in the destruction of his ministry. There was no way for him to go back, change his mind, and see a doctor. He was commited to what he believed and lived it until the end. I've spoken with several people from his church, since his death, and not one of them has said the first thing against the choice he made. In fact, even people who had been constant critics of Souls Harbor gave him credit for sticking to his beliefs. His death left a good witness of what it means to stay the course.
The course that is taken in this Trusting the Lord for your healing is NO DIFFERENT than someone "TRUSTING THE LORD" for their daily bread and sitting down by the dinner table, refusing to go to the store or to do anything other than PRAY for the Lord to feed them. And WHEN THEY DIE OF STARVATION (as they generally seem to do) and someone speaks up and says THAT WAS A STUPID THING TO DO DON'T EMULATE THIS" please dont kill the messenger because you dont like the message. The message is true no matter how much of a raw nerve it strikes with you.
Your analogy fails because the Bible specifically commands men to earn a living and put food on their table. There is no specific command to see doctors in the Bible. Nice try though.
I remember as a new convert the time a group of young people with cars came home from Youth Convention and they all testified how that On the way home the Holy Ghost moved so mightily in the car, one by one they testified how they talked in tongues all the way home from the meeting, and then the young man who was the driver of the car stood up and testified how that he had gone for Fifteen minutes behind the wheel with his eyes closed, and his hands raised and talked in tongues and DIDN'T TOUCH THE STEERING WHEEL OR EVEN LOOK AT THE ROAD FOR FIFTEEN MINUTES HALLELUJAH, THE LORD DROVE MY CAR THROUGH THE MOUNTAINS AS WE ALL PRAISED GOD!!!!!" The whole church took offf shouting and running the aisles until the pastor stood up and said "That is the dumbest and most irresponsible thing I have heard in years! You young people listen to me! Dont you dare take your hands off the wheel of your car and close your eyes when you are driving expecting the Lord to take over for you and drive your car! DON'T DO IT!" The trust the Lord example of those you reference is no different than that exuberant teenager, and just as deadly.
I've had my own "no hands on the wheel experience." Anyone foolish enough to think they can let go of the wheel any time they are praising God is asking for trouble. However, that in no way takes away from what these teenagers experienced or what I experienced.
This is no different sir, there are impressionable men and women out there who need to hear just how foolish this decision is, it is NOT a matter of faith, ( which perhaps is why these stories end so badly most of the time as in the case you referenced.) Leaving widows orphans and vacant pastorships....it is a matter of anything BUT faith. Because FAITH MOVES MOUNTAINS...not bury people under them.
This is just your opinion. You have no idea of how many people have been inspired to trust God in this way, because of the example others have given them. It isn't about living or dying. It's about how far one is willing to trust God.
Sorry that you dont like my attitude, but it is high time someone spoke up and gave voice to the things that YOU YOURSELF said you did not agree with! You did not agree with them because our gut reaction told you they are WRONG. For the sake of the young people who will duplicate this grave error in Bible Understanding, get a voice! You dont have to tear down someones memory or good accomplishments, but dont pull the emotional reaction here, the end result of that whole kind of exercise tends to be a widow, and fatherless children. Please dont say my attitude stinks because I have the fortitude to speak up against this false understanding of FAITH.
Speak up against it all you want, Brother, but don't marginalize others in the process. There's nothing wrong with someone seeing a doctor. If you believe in them it's your choice to do so, just as it's their choice not to see one. I appreciate you apologizing for referring to the "trust God only" crowd as idiots.
By the time the two of you are done, you'll both needs meds for your blood pressure
I think you should agree to disagree !
Sister, we're not upset. We're just discussing the issue, giving our opinions, and, in my case, defending the faith of people who have gone down this road.
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