Pastors move to withhold/lessen SFC offerings in protest of NAYC - Page 42

pelathais · #**411** 09-11-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Was it the NT Church Worldwide or the NT church at

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Jerusalem that sold what they had and had all things common?

Good point, or question, whichever you intended. The Jerusalem church does seem to have held a "special" place in the NT world especially when it came to the distribution of funds. Paul mentions taking up collections just for the saints in Jerusalem. In Jerusalem, they at least appear to have been rather thoroughly communistic in their economy. An interesting point- within the Zionist movement today there are groups of Jews (and now some Messianic Jews) who live in the Holy Land but their living expenses are covered by fellow "believers" outside the region.

The NT church practiced a welfare system whereby widows and orphans would be taken in under specific circumstances (1 Timothy 5). However, even at this early date Paul is warning against the unrestricted rise in the number of those on "the dole."

The statement "had all things in common" is an ellipsis; that is, the statement is not complete or perfect in and of itself. The example of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5 ("Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power?) , along with 1 Timothy 5, shows that private property was recognized and practiced.

So, to wrap this all together; when "communism" was practiced- it wasn't a "perfect" communism. People did and were expected to have private property.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevDWW

And wouldn't it be Capitalistic to sell your positions instead of just dividing them up amongst the group?

Not necessarily. It is the end that we must have in mind. Whether you sold a material possession and gave cash, or if you just gave the possession- the gift is what was accounted for. Of course, cash spends more easily. Some things never change.

Neck · #**412** 09-11-2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I think you folks still have not figured out that the tithe is the Lords, and he tells you were to take it to. It is not up to you to put it anywhere else. You do not have that option. Offerings YES, Tithe NO.

There is always another church to drop your tithes off...

There should be accountabilty and open books....

Period!

Neck · #**413** 09-11-2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I think you folks still have not figured out that the tithe is the Lords, and he tells you were to take it to. It is not up to you to put it anywhere else. You do not have that option. Offerings YES, Tithe NO.

In a free will society of the creation God called the Human Race we do have the option. However we will be outside of his blessings and care.

RevDWW · #**414** 09-11-2007, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Good point, or question, whichever you intended. The Jerusalem church does seem to have held a "special" place in the NT world especially when it came to the distribution of funds. Paul mentions taking up collections just for the saints in Jerusalem. In Jerusalem, they at least appear to have been rather thoroughly communistic in their economy. An interesting point- within the Zionist movement today there are groups of Jews (and now some Messianic Jews) who live in the Holy Land but their living expenses are covered by fellow "believers" outside the region.

The NT church practiced a welfare system whereby widows and orphans would be taken in under specific circumstances (1 Timothy 5). However, even at this early date Paul is warning against the unrestricted rise in the number of those on "the dole."

The statement "had all things in common" is an ellipsis; that is, the statement is not complete or perfect in and of itself. The example of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5 ("Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power?) , along with 1 Timothy 5, shows that private property was recognized and practiced.

So, to wrap this all together; when "communism" was practiced- it wasn't a "perfect" communism. People did and were expected to have private property.
Not necessarily. It is the end that we must have in mind. Whether you sold a material possession and gave cash, or if you just gave the possession- the gift is what was accounted for. Of course, cash spends more easily. Some things never change.

James taught that true religion was to take care of the widow and fatherless in their affliction and to keep one self unstopped by the world.

SOUNWORTHY · #**415** 09-04-2008, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobDylan

I don't know what is and isn't against the rules. I know in the independent circles, we have to get our missionaries money somehow, and it AIN'T goin through hazlewood!

Where in the world is hazlewood? I know where Hazelwood is. That's the home of one of the greatest organizations. If you don't belong to them it's none of your business what they do.

TCSQ · #**416** 09-04-2008, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

If this is true, I wonder what the pastor would say to a saint who withheld tithes and offerings because they didn't like the sermon he preached?

My guess is that the pastors response to that situation would be much different.

Well just to comment on this, wouldnt that be the RESPONSIBLE thing to do when you become convinced that your pastor is taking you in the WRONG direction?

Just wondering....

ChicagoPastor · #**417** 09-04-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve

I've been away for a while - due to a new job and a major change in schedule - so I apologize if this has already been addressed.

Today I had some time to catch up with some friends of mine (licensed ministers) and am more than a little disappointed with what I've heard. I've asked more than one about it and they've all confirmed the same.

I'm sickened by this. Completely disgusted.

Apparently, in a manner of protesting the sinful '07 NAYC, several Pastors are either withholding or significantly lessening the amount of their SFC offerings this year.

If you're a Pastor who is thinking about doing this, would you mind explaining what in the world you feel this will accomplish? Please, by all means, state why you think you should punish the ministries and people that are supported by SFC simply because of your childish tantrum over what happened at NAYC this year. Help me understand why you feel Tupelo, Lighthouse Ranch, Home and Foreign Missionaries, Bible Quizzing and other District events should pay for what happened at NAYC.

This is as stupid as Democratic Senators/Representatives blocking or withholding funds from the troops because they don't support the war.

Doing this does nothing but hurt and possibly permanently injure the ministries or other people that SFC supports. You sure you want to be a part of that? You sure God would honor your tantrum and attitude of "well, I'll make them pay for what happened . . . "

How dare these men. If they follow through with their threats, they'll have to answer to God for their ridiculous selfishness and arrogance. I cannot imagine God approving of this kind of attitude and action.

Any Pastor here on AFF thinking about making this kind of a childish statement?

JMO Sick . . . just sick.

These kind of people are ridiculous....
Most of these Pastors didn't even go to Youth Congress....

It was a wonderful event.......cool to meet "Dora".........

Witholding SFC doesn't hurt the Youth Dept......it hurts missionaries and other departments...

rgcraig · #**418** 09-04-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChicagoPastor

These kind of people are ridiculous....
Most of these Pastors didn't even go to Youth Congress....

It was a wonderful event.......cool to meet "Dora".........

Witholding SFC doesn't hurt the Youth Dept......it hurts missionaries and other departments...

And they want to pass the mantel to whom?

dizzyde · #**419** 09-04-2008, 01:15 PM

Every time this subject comes up, I just am completely amazed. As far as I can tell, very few of the people who have negative comments to make, were actually at Youth Congress.

I was, and when I later found out about the hoopla and controversy that followed, I was blown away. I thought it was amazing and found the services to be some of the most powerful that I have ever been in. I was there when the spirit of God was so strong in that completely packed auditorium, that people from the rafters to the platform were falling on their faces before God.

Oh and, our church will be taking up our annual SFC offering this Sunday night, and we are starting to count the coin cans that have been turned in...

tamor · #**420** 09-04-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzyde

Every time this subject comes up, I just am completely amazed. As far as I can tell, very few of the people who have negative comments to make, were actually at Youth Congress.

I was, and when I later found out about the hoopla and controversy that followed, I was blown away. I thought it was amazing and found the services to be some of the most powerful that I have ever been in. I was there when the spirit of God was so strong in that completely packed auditorium, that people from the rafters to the platform were falling on their faces before God.

Oh and, our church will be taking up our annual SFC offering this Sunday night, and we are starting to count the coin cans that have been turned in...

Hey Girl,

I haven't seen you post in a little while!!