Deputies arrest ex-pastor

[grace_seeker]

Yes, he was a presbyter at the time and another pastor had to temporarily take over his duties until a replacement was voted in.

[Sweet Pea]

Okay - alright, already............... I think you are comparing apples to oranges....

Reba Rambo and a gay church - whatever..... I don't agree with it, but the website is up for all to see (if you are looking for that kind of church...)

Paula White - I'm not too familiar with her circumstances - to be honest, never heard of her until I started lurking at FCF, NFCF and now AFF - but so she got a divorce.... was it a scandal? If so, that should not have been discussed here either

I was not stating my case because this man was UPC - and it has nothing to do with the fact that some refer to him as a "brother in Christ" - it has everything to do with the fact that some people delight in spilling all the negative they can about ANYONE in the ministry - and that is WRONG! Furthermore, it is WRONG to spread all the negative information that you can drum up about ANYONE - minister or not! JMHO

Okay - having said that - I'm out of here..... we'll just have to agree to disagree.......

As Brother Clyde J. Haney used to say..... "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still....."

So to all of you............ remember this man's family in your prayers - they need it ......... and if you want to continue in discussing the situation - have at it....

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by OldTimey

What a bunch of sleazy gossips!!!!!!!!!!!!

You may wish to put a bridle on your tongue, OldTimey.

Do you believe it is Christian-like to refer to your brothers and sisters in Christ this way?

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

NOW THAT WE HAVE THAT CLEARED UP......

I still think that to post it on an "apostolic forum" as it was done here is:

1) malicious
2) unnecessary
3) unkind
4) unChristlike

The fact is that it is pure, unadulterated, old-fashioned gossip to be posted in the manner that it was posted. We're not talking just about this man - you are dragging his family through it as well - and heaven knows they don't deserve that!

I dont need to explain anything to you, SP, but I'll just say this for now...

I thought it was a worthwhile matter to be discussed. I had no malicious intent whatsoever. But unfortunately, you have chosen to malign my motives as malicious, unkind, and unChristlike...

Maybe you feel you are a qualified judge of the hearts and intents of men, but that position is God's alone. Maybe you should read up some scriptures on JUDGMENTALISM before you go blasting people on this forum based on false assumptions.

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

THAT's malicious and sleazy gossip - and that is exactly what the OP did! JMHO

I was taught, if you aren't part of the problem and you aren't part of the solution - it isn't your business to talk about it.

Again, the post had no malicious intent whatsoever. My conscience is very clear toward God regarding that. You may disagree with me posting it, but for you to refer to my actions as malicious is both obnoxious and presumptuous on your part.

Maybe you shouldn't speak so forcefully about things where you dont know all the facts and dynamics involved...

I'll say this...After the original post was done, there were discussions between myself and an Admin [who apparently discussed it with some other Admins], as to whether or not the post should be left up. (I don't say this to put the spotlight on the Admins in this matter, but just to point out that there was a fair amount of thought that went into this all around, in terms of deciding whether to keep the thread alive, or close it.)

I think several of my fellow posters agree with me that this is a real issue that affects even Apostolic churches, and people ought to be aware of what's out there.

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

...it has everything to do with the fact that some people delight in spilling all the negative they can about ANYONE in the ministry - and that is WRONG! Furthermore, it is WRONG to spread all the negative information that you can drum up about ANYONE - minister or not! JMHO

Who is "spreading all the negative information they can drum up" about anyone here?
And who "delights in spilling all the negative they can"...in this particular case?
....And please tell us how exactly you know this.
Why must you portray this in the worst possible light?

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

It is ok to talk about it, but when we do it needs to be done carefully, respectfully, and with grace always mindful that next time it could be us being ground up as grist in the rumor mill. ask me how i know.

I thought that could be done, AP. (I've seen other sensitive matters discussed that way on AFF... why not this? )
And overwhelmingly, from what I've seen, that's how the matter has been handled on this thread so far.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Theresa

while I understand your point on one hand on the other I dont understand why its ok to discuss Paula Whites divorce, some ex UPCer opening a gay church...Reba Rambo opening a gay church...should I go on?

the excuse that they public figures doesnt fly b/c him being a regular joe like everyone else doesnt protect him from public discussion.

If this were to be discussed anywhere it is here....how many other forums do you think have compassion on the family and the victims and just might lift them up in prayer?

this man lost his right to NOT be discussed when he put his hands all over a child in some sick perverted manner.

To say public reaction is sleazy gossip is just ridiculious. Discussing events that matter to this forum is it's entire purpose. Regardless of how connected we might be to the subject matter.

You made some good points there, Theresa.
Well said, and well thought-out.
I appreciate that.

[Sweet Pea]

TRFrance - thank you for your post. At this time I will publicly apologize for my attitude regarding your original post. I don't know you - nor did I know your intent in starting the thread and it was wrong for me to jump to conclusions.

You are right about this heinous behaviour. It is more prevalent in all types of churches across the board than most of us would like to admit - and it needs to be dealt with.

However, it is my opinion that dealing with it on public forums is not the way it should be handled.

Again - I apologize for judging your intent and for coming across in the manner I did. I don't apologize for my opinion that it shouldn't have been posted, but I guess that is something that we will have to disagree on.

I usually have found myself on the same side of the fence in your postings - and in all reality - when my hot button got pushed and I posted - I didn't even stop to think that you were the original poster. Not so sure it would have made a difference at the time - like I said - my hot button got pushed.

To anyone else I offended by my manner and style of posting, I apologize.

[TRFrance]

Not a problem, SP.
The apology is accepted, and appreciated.

Besides, I think almost all of us on AFF have 'jumped the gun' at one time or another.

I think we can all move along at this point.

[ReformedDave]

Glad my father is not around to see this........

[Esther]

To me there are several really serious issues.

One is obvious with the man himself.

But what really, really concerns me is how a church full of Holy Ghost filled people did not discern there was a problem. OR if they did, did nothing about it, OR if they did try and it got covered up because of who it was, or their position.

Why didn't the other ministers discern something was not right?

Why do we hold ourselves to being more spiritual than other churches and yet this stuff is happening everywhere it seems?

I realize we are living in a day of deception, but we really need to learn to be more discerning. The older I get the more I understand Bro. A. D. Urshan's statement he made in 1963. "You need to ask God if He was only going to give you one gift then make it the gift of discernment". Now I think we all know discernment is not listed as one the "gifts", but I do think we all understand what he was saying, and finding the truth to be more telling everyday.

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

Glad my father is not around to see this........

As well as many others!

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Esther

To me there are several really serious issues.

One is obvious with the man himself.

But what really, really concerns me is how a church full of Holy Ghost filled people did not discern there was a problem. OR if they did, did nothing about it, OR if they did try and it got covered up because of who it was, or their position.

Why didn't the other ministers discern something was not right?

Good questions, not that we want to point the finger at the church or the ministers, of course. But it does make you wonder. If a child molesting pastor is preaching to his flock, it had to affect the level of his anointing. You wonder how many of his church members noticed. It could well be that some folks noticed in their spirit that something was "off" with this man... but confronting a sinning pastor is something difficult to do, even if you feel strongly in your spirit that something's just not right.

But along those lines.... I've always thought that spritual gifts in general (including discernment) are not nearly as pervasive in the church as they should be.

Originally Posted by Esther

Why do we hold ourselves to being more spiritual than other churches and yet this stuff is happening everywhere it seems?

I firmly believe it happens much less in Apostolic churches.(I could name you a couple of denominations I know of where sexual sin among clergy is MUCH more prevalent.)
And when we catch it we tend to deal with it more quickly and firmly than non-Spirit filled churches. (Just look at the decades-long Catholic Church child-molesting scandals, for example)