UPCI Ministers and Televison

[timlan2057]

Originally Posted by Brad Murphy

and still others, believe this is an archaic rule, kinda like being arrested for spitting on the sidewalk and just ignore it.

.

Bradley, anyone with half-a-lick of sense knows this is the case.

Of course, NO ONE has the guts to be the first to say: "we should change this in the manual."

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by timlan2057

What you need to understand is that UPCI rules and bylaws in the manual are NOT there to help ministers conform to general principles of ethics, honesty and christianity.

Those bylaws are there for convenient clubs for district boards/national leadership to use in selective enforcement to go after whoever they have a mad on for - someone not politically or genetically connected.

Always have been.

Probably always will be.

That's the simple answer to what you're agonizing over.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Tim on this one.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by timlan2057

What you need to understand is that UPCI rules and bylaws in the manual are NOT there to help ministers conform to general principles of ethics, honesty and christianity.

Those bylaws are there for convenient clubs for district boards/national leadership to use in selective enforcement to go after whoever they have a mad on for - someone not politically or genetically connected.

Always have been.

Probably always will be.

That's the simple answer to what you're agonizing over.

EVERYONE on here knows my stand on television however Tim is sadly correct. It has never been WHAT but WHO.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by timlan2057

Bradley, anyone with half-a-lick of sense knows this is the case.

Of course, NO ONE has the guts to be the first to say: "we should change this in the manual."

What I don't understand is the great majority of UPC folks have televisions and the pastors make no issue out of it then the hoopla over this.

[jimmyrrs]

Originally Posted by Brad Murphy

Please don't forget that having a VCR most likely breaks the rules in the manual as well, unless the VCR does not have a tuner (which is kinda rare).

Some believe that not hooking an antenna or cable to the tuner input mean that it has been "altered" so that it cannot receive channels, while others believe you have to open it up and physically snip the wires for it to be considered disabled...

and still others, believe this is an archaic rule, kinda like being arrested for spitting on the sidewalk and just ignore it.

(I'm not a preacher by the way).

I'm not a technology freak, so please explain. If I go to Walmart and buy a tv but do not hook it up to cable, dish, or and outside antenna and don't even use the old rabbit ears does this mean I do not have a tv?
If I understand what a true monitor is????? it is a screen that can only pick up what is ran to it by a cord. It can not pick up outside signals though the air unless its been altered. But you said a VCR has a tuner. Can I pick up tv channels on a VCR that has a tuner and play them on a true monitor.
But then again nowdays we have wireless. I'm not sure but there may be wireless monitors on the market. What do they receive. Can they pick up other signals are only coded ones.

I know I just need to and pray and let it go. As my wife says, I'm just trying to make Heaven. I think I'll join her.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by jimmyrrs

I'm not a technology freak, so please explain. If I go to Walmart and buy a tv but do not hook it up to cable, dish, or and outside antenna and don't even use the old rabbit ears does this mean I do not have a tv?
If I understand what a true monitor is????? it is a screen that can only pick up what is ran to it by a cord. It can not pick up outside signals though the air unless its been altered. But you said a VCR has a tuner. Can I pick up tv channels on a VCR that has a tuner and play them on a true monitor.
But then again nowdays we have wireless. I'm not sure but there may be wireless monitors on the market. What do they receive. Can they pick up other signals are only coded ones.

I know I just need to and pray and let it go. As my wife says, I'm just trying to make Heaven. I think I'll join her.

Not to speak for Brad, but back when VCRs were legalized, there were monitors that had no tuner in them at all, specifically designed for VCRs. They were very expensive, so many ministers bought televisions and just didn't hook them up to an antenna, cable, etc. They were only hooked up to the VCR, so they were in reality nothing more than monitors.

However, the argument was, even though unhooked from any outside broadcasting source, these "monitors" were still televisions, and not only did they violate the manual, they created the undue temptation for a minister to buy a set of "rabbit ears" at the store and watch Sunday afternoon football when he should be lying on his face before God.

[Brad Murphy]

Yes, you could have a true monitor (without a TV tuner) and still receive television channels from a VCR (assuming the VCR has a built-in tuner, as most do), even though you only have the RCA cables hooked up between the television and the VCR... this was a trick we used many times growing up as preacher's kids to watch television even back in the 80's... usually the kids understand the technology better than the parents... and this especially applies today with computers and the internet... if you think your kids are locked out of things they shouldn't access on the internet because you paid $50.00 for some special software, you are most likely wrong.

[Brad Murphy]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Not to speak for Brad, but back when VCRs were legalized, there were monitors that had no tuner in them at all, specifically designed for VCRs. They were very expensive, so many ministers bought televisions and just didn't hook them up to an antenna, cable, etc. They were only hooked up to the VCR, so they were in reality nothing more than monitors.

However, the argument was, even though unhooked from any outside broadcasting source, these "monitors" were still televisions, and not only did they violate the manual, they created the undue temptation for a minister to buy a set of "rabbit ears" at the store and watch Sunday afternoon football when he should be lying on his face before God.

Exactly... so this means you have to interpret the "spirit" of the rule...

A. Is it wrong to have a device that is called a television even if the tube has been replaced with a fishbowl full of tropical fish? You could argue that this is still wrong if any reasonable person would consider the device a television and recognize it as such.... even if it was not in working order.

B. Is having a device that is called a television only wrong if it is capable of receiving broadcast signals? You could argue that it is not wrong because the television is not currently receiving broadcast signals, either due to being unplugged, not powered on, or an antenna is not hooked up and there are no local signals strong enough to be received without an external antenna - (Even the short wire between the tuner card and the plug on the back of the television acts as a very small antenna)

C. Is having a device that is called a television only wrong if it is CURRENTLY receiving broadcast signals?

D. Is any other device capable of receiving broadcast signals also wrong? (I will even specify motion video signals to make it easier on the ultra-cons)....

Is a car only a car when it is moving or is it still a car when it is parked? Is it still a car if it is broken down or missing an engine?

[Brad Murphy]

I would also add that AT&T now offers television over your phone line (they call it U-Verse)... you get a box that looks like a cable/satellite box (for each "television" in your home, and you can plug in either a co-ax cable or an ethernet cable to it... this would mean that you are getting broadcast television, over your telephone line, and going to the "cable" box from a central controller in your house using an ethernet cable and basically running on the same local area network as your home internet/wireless service.

This "cable" box in turn uses HDMI or DVI (or RCA if you have an old TV) cables to go to your monitor... The new plasma screen "televisions" have the same connections on the back as your computer monitor now.... in essence, they ARE a computer monitor, with a built-in tuner.

The only reason I don't have it yet is they haven't upgraded the telephone lines to fiber yet in my neigborhood.... and I am a few hundred feet to far away from the closest demark.


In other words, I could have this service, with all of the programming and be able to say that I do not have a television (nor an antenna, nor cable, nor satellite) in my home... if I was willing to spend the money for a suitable "monitor".

A television is no longer a specific device, it is an idea or "word picture" that you use to describe what you use a specific device for...

[jimmyrrs]

Originally Posted by Brad Murphy

I would also add that AT&T now offers television over your phone line (they call it U-Verse)... you get a box that looks like a cable/satellite box (for each "television" in your home, and you can plug in either a co-ax cable or an ethernet cable to it... this would mean that you are getting broadcast television, over your telephone line, and going to the "cable" box from a central controller in your house using an ethernet cable and basically running on the same local area network as your home internet/wireless service.

This "cable" box in turn uses HDMI or DVI (or RCA if you have an old TV) cables to go to your monitor... The new plasma screen "televisions" have the same connections on the back as your computer monitor now.... in essence, they ARE a computer monitor, with a built-in tuner.

The only reason I don't have it yet is they haven't upgraded the telephone lines to fiber yet in my neigborhood.... and I am a few hundred feet to far away from the closest demark.


In other words, I could have this service, with all of the programming and be able to say that I do not have a television (nor an antenna, nor cable, nor satellite) in my home... if I was willing to spend the money for a suitable "monitor".

A television is no longer a specific device, it is an idea or "word picture" that you use to describe what you use a specific device for...

Sign of the times. LOL
Thanks for the upgrade.