UPC District board suing church in MS.? - Page 17

aak1972 · #**161** 11-12-2008, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

He was Jesus. He could see hearts, therefore He could make judgments about their hearts and react accordingly. He had the right to bring about judgment, call them hypocrites, and to call attention to what was in their hearts. No human has the ability to see in a man's heart, or react as if he/she has that ability. (E.g., pronounce judgment accordingly)

So the example of Jesus in the temple doesn't apply, because NONE of us would ever qualify to wreak that kind of havoc.

I also agree that we have the right to "judge a matter" among ourselves. That is different from pronouncing judgment upon another person, and going through the church with a (figurative) whip. In this case, though, several people have said that taking the matter to court was a last resort, and that biblical avenues had already been exhausted. Therefore, it is apparent that judging the matter amongst the church didn't work. After that, the only recourse is to walk away. IMO, anyway.

So if someone decieves your lender or if thier is an error in bookeeping and your lender forecloses on your home that you built with your own hands you would walk away?

MissBrattified · #**162** 11-12-2008, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aak1972

Some of these folks like me have way to many memories and ties to the building. My grandfather had to put his name on the mortgage as one of the board members. People died building that church. So in my opinion they have every right to disagree with some egotistical man from California who has been in this city for 4 years. That building has been a symbol of the UPC not only in our city but throughout the entire south. So I think if you will not fight for something that you put forth blood sweat and tears into and something that is tangible you will be to spineless to fight for anything.

Thanks for calling me spineless. LOL!!!!

It often takes more courage to let something be than to get into the fight. Human nature is to take what is yours, defend what is yours, and to destroy your enemies.

Defending your family or children or people you love is one thing, but to defend a "thing"? It isn't worth disobeying the Word. Material things ultimately do NOT matter in the larger (eternal) scheme of things. I do not believe that God calls it spineless to walk away from something material, even if it is something you built with your own hands, in order to remain in accordance with His commandments.

We have our human nature, and we have God's Word. When the two disagree, we should give God's Word precedence, and call it courageous to do so.

MissBrattified · #**163** 11-12-2008, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aak1972

So if someone decieves your lender or if thier is an error in bookeeping and your lender forecloses on your home that you built with your own hands you would walk away?

aak, do you not perceive that there is a difference between church matters and personal matters? Scripture makes it clear that God expects church matters to be handled within the church. As for personal losses--we've suffered them.

You keep arguing, but you really aren't arguing with me. Almost every person on this thread has presented scripture to support their points. Can you present scripture that supports taking legal action against a pastor or brother?

aak1972 · #**164** 11-12-2008, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Thanks for calling me spineless. LOL!!!!

It often takes more courage to let something be than to get into the fight. Human nature is to take what is yours, defend what is yours, and to destroy your enemies.

Defending your family or children or people you love is one thing, but to defend a "thing"? It isn't worth disobeying the Word. Material things ultimately do NOT matter in the larger (eternal) scheme of things. I do not believe that God calls it spineless to walk away from something material, even if it is something you built with your own hands, in order to remain in accordance with His commandments.

We have our human nature, and we have God's Word. When the two disagree, we should give God's Word precedence, and call it courageous to do so.

So let me understand you would fight for your home?

Michael Phelps · #**165** 11-12-2008, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

aak, do you not perceive that there is a difference between church matters and personal matters? Scripture makes it clear that God expects church matters to be handled within the church.

You keep arguing, but you really aren't arguing with me. Almost every person on this thread has presented scripture to support their points. Can you present scripture that supports taking legal action against a pastor or brother?

Who needs scripture when you have emotion?

aak1972 · #**166** 11-12-2008, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

aak, do you not perceive that there is a difference between church matters and personal matters? Scripture makes it clear that God expects church matters to be handled within the church.

You keep arguing, but you really aren't arguing with me. Almost every person on this thread has presented scripture to support their points. Can you present scripture that supports taking legal action against a pastor or brother?

I am not arguing scripture with you. I cant find any on what to do when a pastor does what this one has done. If you can find one dealing with a deceptive lying pastor let me know please.

Dimples · #**167** 11-12-2008, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aak1972

So if someone decieves your lender or if thier is an error in bookeeping and your lender forecloses on your home that you built with your own hands you would walk away?

The key here is "your home", your name is on the deed.

The church is not personally owned by only one person or group of people. I understand the hurt because of the sweat and blood that was shed to build it, but it's not "yours".

Dimples · #**168** 11-12-2008, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aak1972

I am not arguing scripture with you. I cant find any on what to do when a pastor does what this one has done. If you can find one dealing with a deceptive lying pastor let me know please.

There are the 10 commandments. Thy shall not lie.

MissBrattified · #**169** 11-12-2008, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aak1972

So let me understand you would fight for your home?

I already answered your question. By the way, the home we presently have, we bought from a woman who attends our church. One of the things my husband and I discussed BEFORE we purchased the house was the idea of buying from someone we go to church with. There IS a different dynamic, and if there had been a problem, we would have let it go in her favor, a point which we decided in advance.

I believe in doing business properly, honestly, and shrewdly. I believe in being a good steward. BUT, because the Word DOES mention that we should do business differently with our brothers and sisters, (for the sake of preserving our reputation with the world), then it must be taken into consideration that perhaps those dealings must be dealt with differently. Simply because scripture says so.

Michael Phelps · #**170** 11-12-2008, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aak1972

I am not arguing scripture with you. I cant find any on what to do when a pastor does what this one has done. If you can find one dealing with a deceptive lying pastor let me know please.

How about reading the story of Saul and David.

Is your pastor your father-in-law, and has he tried to kill you? Has he thrown a spear across the room at you?

Even then, you don't have Biblical authority to retaliate. Let God handle it.