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11-22-2008, 01:32 PM
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Re: Do you choose what you believe in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Questioner
Hello, I'm not here to fight or debate but would appreciate any reference material that anyone could recommend on the subject. I am also NOT looking for prayer or pity or anything of the sort.
I wasn't sure exactly how to title this post... but this the best I can come up with.
Do you choose what you believe in, or is it something out of your control? Do you choose to like ice cream? Will reading about ice cream make you more likely or less likely to like ice cream... or is it just a part of you that you cannot control that determines whether you like ice cream.......... (fyi - this analogy is for those who's response to my post will be that I need to read my Bible or pray, which I can go through the motions of but my heart really isn't in it... which of course will mean I should just pray even harder and read my bible even more, etc. ad infinitium)...
The reason I ask is - I believe I am becoming an atheist or agnostic... not by choice, I don't believe that you actually "choose" to believe in something...... you either do believe things or you don't, and nothing short of an epiphany or paradigm shift can change that. I have questioned things my entire life, even as a child... even in Sunday School.
Religion (of any sort) seems more far-fetched the older I get. I realize that most people become MORE religious and/or spiritual as they get older, but for some reason the reverse is happening to me (I am approaching 40 if it matters).
I was raised in a UPC home, have several generations of Apostolic heritage and the majority of my relatives are UPC. I have been baptized (in Jesus name) and have spoken in tongues.
I assume that this makes me an apostate or reprobate or something of the sort. I always thought that the truth... my heritage... could stand up to questioning, however it seems to have backfired in my case.
Admin - would appreciate if you could keep my identity private (I am making some attempt to conceal it so as not to hurt family and friends, but have not covered my tracks as far as my IP address). I will also be choosing my words carefully so that people cannot figure out who I am.
All I am looking for are any books that may assist me with this subject... I would be looking for things that approach God on a logical level and not on an emotional level, if that makes any sense... and it needs to be several steps above the Kirk Cameron type videos...
I won't engage in any debate, and will try to ignore any emotional scare tactics that will surely follow my posting this.
Thank you for your time... I consider some of you my friends and find it really hard to write this, but have been meaning to do something like this for some time. I am also interested in knowing if anyone else has been through this, or knows anyone who has similar feelings and tries to hide them from friends and family so as not to upset them.
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I think being raised in UPCI culture; knowing how to dress, how to act, how to sing, how to praise, and how to be - does not give you a true relationship to Christ.
God is more than up to the challenge of showing you who He is and how much He loves you. Just ask Him to show himself to you...He will.
Questioning does not make you reprobate nor an atheist...it makes you human 
Blessings, Rhoni
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11-22-2008, 01:40 PM
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Re: Do you choose what you believe in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Phelps
But, isn't that in effect what we believe when we have faith in God?
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That was an answer to Questioner's initial question, " Do you choose what you believe in, or is it something out of your control?".
I believe God allows or gives us the latitude to make our own choices (I'm not in anyway Calvinistic) and depending on the choices we make, He guides our steps through circumstances to bring about the law of reaping and sowing. I also believe the choices we make are TRUE choices despite God having perfect foreknowledge of them.
Job 4:8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
Pro 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.
Unfortunately, Questioner, seems to think we have no choice in what we believe. He's becoming fatalistic.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE....  My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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11-22-2008, 01:42 PM
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Re: Do you choose what you believe in?
People choose what they believe...but it doesn't really matter what one believes now does it? The truth lines up to the Word of God.
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11-22-2008, 01:43 PM
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Rebel with a cause.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Posts: 6,813
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Re: Do you choose what you believe in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
That was an answer to Questioner's initial question, " Do you choose what you believe in, or is it something out of your control?".
I believe God allows or gives us the latitude to make our own choices (I'm not in anyway Calvinistic) and depending on the choices we make, He guides our steps through circumstances to bring about the law of reaping and sowing.
Job 4:8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
Pro 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.
Unfortunately, Questioner, seems to think we have no choice in what we believe. He's becoming fatalistic. |
Gotcha.
So, what you're saying is that we all are placing our faith in SOMETHING, just some trust in fate, and some trust in a God who is directing our steps?
I would agree with this, if that's what you're saying.
As David said, "Some trust in chariots and horses, but we will trust in God". (Paraphrase)
__________________
"Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
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11-22-2008, 01:46 PM
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Registered Member
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Posts: 10,749
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Re: Do you choose what you believe in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Phelps
Gotcha.
So, what you're saying is that we all are placing our faith in SOMETHING, just some trust in fate, and some trust in a God who is directing our steps?
I would agree with this, if that's what you're saying.
As David said, "Some trust in chariots and horses, but we will trust in God". (Paraphrase)
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Yes, that's what I'm saying. LOL
Sorry to be so confusing!
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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11-22-2008, 01:56 PM
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Forever Loved Admin
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 26,537
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Re: Do you choose what you believe in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nahkoe
If belief was simply a choice I could make, things would be a lot easier for me. These are the kind of answers that turned me completely away from Christianity. And I know the people offering them to me meant no harm, and I know you mean no harm. But this answer wasn't enough for me, it still isn't enough for me.
It's like taking someone who's colorblind out and watching a sunset with them. No matter how much you describe what you're seeing, what you're viewing, what you're experiencing, it won't mean anything to that person. It doesn't diminish your experience in any way. It just leaves them without that shared point of reference.
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I do understand that. We come from different perspectives. I guess we all have to have a reason.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
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11-22-2008, 01:58 PM
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Rebel with a cause.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Posts: 6,813
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Re: Do you choose what you believe in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
Yes, that's what I'm saying. LOL
Sorry to be so confusing!
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YOu weren't confusing, I'm just trying to multi-task! 
__________________
"Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
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11-22-2008, 02:06 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,749
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Re: Do you choose what you believe in?
Questioner, if you are looking for books, especially by Christian authors, in addition to TRFrance's suggestions, you might want to try Mere Christianity by CS Lewis and Warranted Christian Belief by Alvin Plantinga. There are also many Christian apologetic sites online. Here's some to get you started:
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/PageServer
http://www.paulcopan.com/articles/
http://www.4truth.net/
http://www.irr.org/
http://www.bethinking.org/other-religions/
http://www.str.org/site/PageServer
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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11-22-2008, 04:23 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Do you choose what you believe in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cneasttx
I think the biggest question is, why would you choose not to believe?
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This person is saying it isn't necessarily a choice but that their logic and experiences have brought them to this place.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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11-22-2008, 04:43 PM
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Forever Loved Admin
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 26,537
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Re: Do you choose what you believe in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
This person is saying it isn't necessarily a choice but that their logic and experiences have brought them to this place.
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To not believe is a choice.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
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