TRANSCRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Truthhurts]

Quick Poll


How many sent there christmas gifts back to the sender this year.....How many rejected those great free gifts that your loved one got for you....



How many rejected the gift that God gave you this year. It is free as well.........whether you have to have it or not will not be the question.



The question will be why did you not want it.


Truthhurts

[ronharvey]

Originally Posted by George

I thought it was a fair question. If, according to what Haney said, the Charismatics will soon be gone, does that mean emergent church will take their place. I can't see any of these Charismatics coming to the UPC.

I left the Charismatic orig because of their misuse of scripture and distain for doctrine.

They wanted to be free to believe anything they wanted to imagine.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Jermyn,

Did you receive the Holy Ghost when you believed!

If so, did YOU speak in tongues when the Holy Ghost
came!

If not, how did you know you had received the Holy Ghost!
Was there a sign of life! A sound, etc.

Blessings,

Falla39
Bump for
Jermyn Davidson

Honestly, I had a very tender conscience and a healthy fear of the Lord long before I spoke in tongues.

I distinctly remember praying for the Lord to allow me to speak in tongues-- in a way that I would KNOW that it was Him and not me, at all. He has given me that experience, by His Grace, over and over again. Thank You Jesus!


Our Pentecostal culture teaches that there MUST be a verifiable sign of a person receiving salvation. Maybe this is a lack of faith on our part. After all, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The Bible does not make the case that a new believer or a newly saved person will always speak in tongues at the moment of conversion.

The Bible does clearly state in Romans 14:17 what the Kingdom of God is:

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

I can have those attributes from the Lord, without speaking in tongues. But if I speak in tongues but lack love for my brother, then am I really saved?

So to present the Gospel in a way that mandates speaking in tongues for salvation is not strictly Biblical.

You really have to add that part of our doctrine to the scriptures in order to make it Biblically sound.

We have two examples in scripture where there are folks who are saved but do not speak in tongues.

We have the Cornelius example who followed the three step pattern, but out of order.

As a former 3 stepper, I don't see how anyone can really get by these examples and tell someone that a person must do X, Y and Z to be saved when the Bible (in its entirety) clearly does not make that case!

[scotty]

Originally Posted by ronharvey

I left the Charismatic orig because of their misuse of scripture and distain for doctrine.

They wanted to be free to believe anything they wanted to imagine.

you gone and done it now !!

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Truthhurts

I have a quick question if it is a promise or free gift only.....why are so many rejecting it. I want everything I can get from God myself.

If it is a promise why is God keeping it from so many............Just a question....truthhurts

God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.

Some folks simply just don't seek the Lord for this Promise.

Their churches and the sermons they hear do not prompt or instill in them the desire to seek the Lord for this Promise.

Some want fast-food oriented sermons and services. Sometimes, you have to wait on God and too often, Christians in our culture aren't interested in that waiting.


Many do seek the Lord for other things, other promises-- but out of ignorance, they don't seek the Lord for the speaking in tongues experience.

Many folks read what St. Paul had to say about it and they think it not important enough to seek after.

[MikeinAR]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Mike, are you then saying these mentioned AOG deficiencies are not present in the UPC?

No, I'm just addressing the AOG because I'm more familiar with that organizations current issues.

[MikeinAR]

Originally Posted by StMark

MIke, you are still AoG?? just curious

Yes.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by ronharvey

I left the Charismatic orig because of their misuse of scripture and distain for doctrine.

They wanted to be free to believe anything they wanted to imagine.

Interesting. What did you disagree with and what group were you involved with?

[ronharvey]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Interesting. What did you disagree with and what group were you involved with?

In the 70's there was no 'group' as such, just a loose confederite of churches was the norm (no accountability).

Preachers on the radio teaching 12+ fruit of the Spirit and other really dumb 'revelations' that God really didn't give them.

Calvary Chapels opening up and 'Pastor Chuck' issuing what they will believe and taking down your Calvary Chapel Sign and disenfranchising you if you disagreed with him.

God speaking things his Word did not say to them and no matter how contrary it was to another's 'revelation' or the Word of God; it was God nonetheless.

Really odd stuff. If you ask them to demonstrate it from the Word, the answer was usually; God speaks to me just as much as he did to the Apostles.

They flat out denied (90% of the ones I asked) that the Apostles had any greater authority than anyone else, therefore what they believed is as much the word as that of the Apostles.

After a few years of that nonsense, I left in search of genuine believers.

Ah, yes; the wonder years.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by scotty

Really ? Where were they when they healed the lame man ? Where were they going ? Why ?

They were going to the Jewish temple, which stands no more and had nothing to do with Christianity in the NT church> They went there to pray and probably to witness to other Jews.