How much should this pastor make?

[Innocuous]

Originally Posted by Cookin-with-Stoneking

What can't the church afford, they have no debt? No other expenses except utilities, insurance, etc.

Ok, I guess what was assumed, thus left unsaid, in my first remark was that it's difficult to put number out there without knowing the actual expenses and, related to that, the location of the church. What is their disposable monthly income, after all expenses and savings, and what is the average income for a family of his size in that locale?

I would say that if the church is growing that they need to do what is required for continued and sustained growth. So if that means paying him a salary then so be it. If not then they should spend the money where it will help make the church solid and established. If they should get a children's pastor first, or a youth pastor, or some other specialized type minister then they should do that first. I can't make a judgement on that.

If it's determined that it's best that he get some money then, in my opinion, the amount he gets depends on how much money is available monthly and what the church can afford to pay without taking resources away from doing things that make the church grow. So, if there is say $5000 a month left over after expenses and savings then maybe give him half of that for now until financial benchmarks are met and then he gets more up to a certain amount. The other half should, in my opinion, go to help continue to grow the church. Perhaps they could hire another part-timer. Sometimes two part-timers are better than one full-timer.

I am of the opinion that a pastor should not make more than the average family in his congregation, up the average of a lower middle class family in his town. Thus, if he has a rich congregation he should live below their standard of living, and if in a poor congregation at or near their standard of living.

[Blubayou]

We had an interesting conversation with an older UPC minister about a year ago. In discussing tithes, he stated that the tithes belonged to the minister in total. That offerings should pay for the church expenses. My husband and I were puzzled, this is not how it is handled in our church,or the churches we were raised in. Is this a common belief?

[ChTatum]

Brother, this is probably going to sound rude, but it ain't any of my business, or the business of anyone wh does not have a vested interest.

As a church, and as pastor of the church, we are very open with financial matters, for those who attend. It doesn't concern anyone else.

I really don't think you can have a hard and fast rule that is always applicable.

[ChTatum]

Originally Posted by Blubayou

We had an interesting conversation with an older UPC minister about a year ago. In discussing tithes, he stated that the tithes belonged to the minister in total. That offerings should pay for the church expenses. My husband and I were puzzled, this is not how it is handled in our church,or the churches we were raised in. Is this a common belief?

Sadly, yes, in some circles.

[CrossWalker]

Originally Posted by Blubayou

We had an interesting conversation with an older UPC minister about a year ago. In discussing tithes, he stated that the tithes belonged to the minister in total. That offerings should pay for the church expenses. My husband and I were puzzled, this is not how it is handled in our church,or the churches we were raised in. Is this a common belief?

Originally Posted by ChTatum

Sadly, yes, in some circles.

Sad indeed.

Let me share a little story of a church that voted in a new pastor. The new pastor took 100% of the tithes, had a completely remodeled parsonage to live in at no cost, utility bills were all paid by the church. The church building had been completely remodeled and the building was debt free. The offerings more than paid the bills, and the church had a nice size sum of money in the bank for each department to use for outreach & growth projects.

It was a small church in a small area with an average Sunday attendance of 60. There were outreach growth projects in progress. There were some children brought in through a vacation bible school type program the summer before the new pastor took office. Within a month after he took the church, due to him saying something to a few of the little girls about the length of their skirts, or saying something to the boys about wearing jeans with holes in them wasn't allowed- those children stopped coming to church. Their parents never let them come back again. My heart aches for those kids-- because I was in charge of the VBS program that brought them in. I feel as though their blood is on my hands even though I know that it wasn't my fault they were stopped from coming to church. I read in the paper a few months ago that the oldest girl was arrested for shoplifting and was sentenced to community service.

The musicians quit the church and went to other churches due to him trying to dictate what was allowed to be played and sung. The youth leader and his wife resigned and moved to another church because they were not allowed to access youth department funds for outreach activities.

Sunday school teachers resigned their positions and left for other churches. Family after family left because there was nothing left for the children and youth. Families who had attended the church for 20 years or longer. Young men and women who were raised in that church and had chosen that church as the place to raise their children.

Two years later, due to the actions of the pastor, Church attendance is 4. He is still apparently supported by the UPC district officials of the district where the church is located. There are no tithe payers and offering givers left. Those who still attend are the pastor, his wife, and 2 of the original members of the congregation. They would leave if it wasn't for putting so many years into the church. They refuse to leave because if they leave this man has the building free and clear. The value of the property is probably near $100,000. He was asked to resign and refused. The UPC district office supported him.

The pastor says God told him that he was going to get the church down to nothing and rebuild it. Somehow, I found it hard to believe that God would destroy a church just to fill it up again.

Visitors attended a few services and asked about becoming members. They were told that members were nothing but trouble, so he wasn't letting anyone else join as a member.

There is only one service held for an hour on Sunday mornings. No one in the community or surrounding areas will attend the church due to the actions of the pastor.

Many times I've questioned why something like this was allowed to happen. I'll probably never understand. I'm just really glad that God has finally removed the bitterness from my heart that I felt, because the bitterness was keeping me from wanting to attend church at all.

Now there's nothing left but fear for the souls of the members who remain there. Fear for the soul of the man who calls himself the pastor there.


I still feel the hurt, but God is helping me with that. The bitterness was really hard to let go of. Probably one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, but you know, it made all the difference in the world. I feel the presence of God again. It had been a while since I really felt his presence when I prayed. When I finally let go of the bitterness I had felt, the presence of God surrounded me, like nothing I had ever felt before.

I've read many posts on this forum from people who can't let go of the bitterness from past hurts. We can't make it to heaven holding the bitterness in our hearts. We have to forgive others to receive forgiveness.

I've said way too much. I held this inside for a long time. I just felt really impressed to share my story now. Maybe for someone else reading who's having trouble letting go of the past, and letting go of the bitterness from past hurts. To whoever this is for, I'm praying for you, even though I don't know you. Let go of the bitterness.

To the rest of you reading who can't really understand why I made this post, I'm sorry for the rambling.

[seguidordejesus]

A church in a southern city took the median income of the local tri-county area and set that as the pastor's minimum salary, with some perks like a car. His maximum salary is twice the tri-country median salary. What the actual salary is (between the max and min) is based on the amount of tithes coming in. Hope that makes sense. The bylaws clearly state all of this so that there is no confusion. I guess it kind of works like base salary + commission, but that's not really how it's presented.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by ChTatum

Brother, this is probably going to sound rude, but it ain't any of my business, or the business of anyone wh does not have a vested interest.

As a church, and as pastor of the church, we are very open with financial matters, for those who attend. It doesn't concern anyone else.

I really don't think you can have a hard and fast rule that is always applicable.

I don't pastor but I agree with you.