Bishop SC Johnson

[warrior]

Martha, you had such a strong defense of Bishop Johnson. I am still waiting on your answers to the questions I asked a few post above.

[TRFrance]

How can people expect to receive a fresh word from the Lord for today... when they've commited themselves to just listening to 40 year old tapes?

Just goes to show you that someone can have the Holy Ghost and still be far from what God's will is. Obviously, man-made traditions can be a strong & difficult thing for folks to overcome, even Holy Ghost filled folks.

[warrior]

TRFrance, in order for there to be deliverance a person would have to recognize that what they are doing isn't correct. They have convinced themselves that there is no one else who can ever preach the truth except for Bishop Johnson, therefore they only listen to him even if he hasn't spoken a word in over 40 years.

There are several issues with them only listening to tapes. They don't have a leader, or visionary. Who decides what tape is appropriate for the moment? Who is anoiting and praying for the sick? Who is baptizing and ordaining more elders? Too many reasons for any person to feel that this is okay.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by warrior

TRFrance, in order for there to be deliverance a person would have to recognize that what they are doing isn't correct. They have convinced themselves that there is no one else who can ever preach the truth except for Bishop Johnson, therefore they only listen to him even if he hasn't spoken a word in over 40 years.

There are several issues with them only listening to tapes. They don't have a leader, or visionary. Who decides what tape is appropriate for the moment? Who is anoiting and praying for the sick? Who is baptizing and ordaining more elders? Too many reasons for any person to feel that this is okay.

So true, and so sad.

Just goes to show you that just because a place calls themselves "Apostolic" doesnt mean they've got it together.

We've got to be really discerning nowadays, and compare everything against scripture. Sad to say, there are some "Apostolic" churches I wouldnt even send my dog to.

[warrior]

The ugly part of about this is that Bishop Johnson created some of the craze that we see today. He would say things like, he was the only one right, listen to his tapes until Jesus comes and there was gross darkness between the biblical apostles and himself. He brought the light in the evening time. It seems that there was a level of self deception. You know, pride can be a great hinder to our ministry and the salvation of others. A person can start off humble and get a puffed up spirit as the ministry grows and succeds. God will never allow a man to be bigger than He is. Had Johnson lived, I don't think there would have been any room for Jesus any longer. People are still waiting on his resurrection as if he was Jesus.

Bishop Johnson is given credit for working miracles. We know he was only the vessel being used. No credit is given to Jesus.

[martha]

Originally Posted by warrior

Hi Martha,

Bishop was a man who was honorable for the One God message. However, can you tell me the scriptures he used to support the doctrine of his dress code, and no son of God in heaven. That is a message that can be easily challenged through scripture.

Now, what is the scripture that says he will be the last apostle? If that was true, there must be a scripture that would mention something so profound.

Where is the scripture that says we should be listening only to Bishop Johnson's tapes and be pastored by a man that his been dead for more than 40 years. There are people walking around talking about everybody is false except for Bishop Johnson. So they have no living pastor and sit at home listening only to tapes. There is no scripture to support this. Bishop Johnson told his congregation to listen to his tapes until Jesus comes back. That teaching is wrong!

What about the teaching that there was gross darkness between the biblical apostles and Bishop Johnson. Johnson preached that. What are the scriptures that prove that?

I have no problem with people who support Bishop Johnson. However, there are some things that I think should be looked at more closely before digesting everything he said as gospel. Looking forward to seeing the scriptures that you have to defend Bishop Johnson's teachings.

Martha: The dress code came from 1st Timothy 2:9-13. That scripture was used as a model. The actual code was adopted by the women in leadership of the women in the church and agreed upon by Bishop Johnson. But it was Sister Green, supervisor of the women who created the specific dress code. Bishop Johnson had his own idea of how a woman professing holiness was supposed to dress and Sister Green's model was okay with him. If Sister Green had presented a less severe code, he might have okayed that too but once it was established, "all walked by the same rule." I really don't believe that Bishop Johnson believed that a modest dress of any modest length and nylon hose would send anyone to hell. He just frowned on it because it was against the established dress code and therefore was disobedience to the code.

No son of God in heaven now is scriptural, of course. Bishop Johnson NEVER preached ANYTHING that was not scriptural. If you ever heard him preach it you would have understood. Jesus Christ is God Almighty. He is Father in creation when He created all things. He was the Son of God in redemption and now Holy Ghost in the Church. Let me see if I can copy the web site that has this particular sermon preached by Bishop Johnson onto this page and you can listen to it for yourself.

The True Word, Apostolic Ministries of America, Inc.
A. All Bishop S.C. Johnson Audio Tapes will continue to be available from ... Bishop S.C. Johnson's Headquarters of his Apostolic Churches (The Church of ...

Go to the True Word Apostolic Ministries of America, Inc. web page and at the bottom of the page are some of Bishop Johnson's sermons. You will find part I and part II of No Son of God in Heaven Now listed. You can't play all of them because the site won't let you but these two can be played.

[marthaolivia]

I saw the name 'Martha' and was perplexed for a moment. I knew I didn't defend S.C. Johnson and wondered why my name was there.
I do remember hearing him on the radio when I was a child. I also remember he taught that women were to wear cotton stockings. Funny, as much as he preached Oneness, that is what I remember.

[martha]

Originally Posted by warrior

Hi Martha,

Bishop was a man who was honorable for the One God message. However, can you tell me the scriptures he used to support the doctrine of his dress code, and no son of God in heaven. That is a message that can be easily challenged through scripture.

Martha: Try the Web Site I gave you for the actual sermon by Bishop Johnson. Let me know after you listen to the tape if you disagree with Bishop Johnson.

Now, what is the scripture that says he will be the last apostle? If that was true, there must be a scripture that would mention something so profound.

Martha: Again, I don't recall him saying that, but I'll take your word for it because it's true but I don't know what scripture he might have quoted You do know what an Apostle is? One who does not get his doctrine from the seminary of his choice or is taught be the elders but gets it directly from God. There are many ministers, Apostolic and other, who call themselves Apostles who have LEARNED FROM BISHOP JOHNSON, not by revelation from God. That's not how you define Apostle. Now if you can find ONE MINISTER who is not affiliated with Bishop Johnson's Ministry whether or not he calls himself an Apostle, who preaches EVERYTHING that Bishop Johnson preached, PLEASE LET ME KNOW BECAUSE "I KNOW NOT ANY". In all the years he's been dead, since 1961, I KNOW NOT ANY. That's why Bishop Johnson called his ministry THE WHOLE TRUTH. And there are those who have come out of his church after his death who are peaching but have adulterated the gospel that he preached.

Where is the scripture that says we should be listening only to Bishop Johnson's tapes and be pastored by a man that his been dead for more than 40 years.

Martha: We're reading the words of men who have been dead over 2000 years, and we don't understand them. And who can declare them to us? Bishop Johnson is THE ONLY MAN I KNOW WHO COULD. God's word prevailed in the first century church after pentecost. It was lost from the earth until Bishop Johnson came to declare it. Now that Bishop Johnson is gone, the "whole truth" of the word is indeed sparce in the earth with only his echoes in fading tapes, a few radio stations, a few churches scattered sparsely across the country, and in the hearts and minds of people who have been taught by him and passed it on to their children (For the promise is unto you and to your children . . . . .) Simeon Peter said in the bible said: "Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou has the words of eternal life." My questions is WHO HAS THE WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE TO DECLARE TO US THE WHOLE TRUTH OF GOD, NOTHING LACKING?


There are people walking around talking about everybody is false except for Bishop Johnson.

Martha: It makes no difference what the people say. What do the scriptures say?


So they have no living pastor and sit at home listening only to tapes. There is no scripture to support this.

Martha: Is there a scripture that condemns it, especially when you can't find the "Whole Truth" ANYWHERE ELSE. And there are a few churches scattered across the country, but very few where members go when they can for fellowship and worship.


Bishop Johnson told his congregation to listen to his tapes until Jesus comes back. That teaching is wrong

Martha: I really don't remember him saying that but if he did, God gave that old man the wisdom of God. It's always a good thing to listen to the wisdom of God. I KNOW NO ALTERNATIVE. Consider what happened to THE CHURCH after the death of all the apostles. It went into Apostasy and all those people attending those churches went with it. This is the darkness that covered the earth and gross darkness the people.

What about the teaching that there was gross darkness between the biblical apostles and Bishop Johnson. Johnson preached that. What are the scriptures that prove that?

Martha: It sounds like you already know a lot about Bishop Johnson's teaching. Were you ever a member of his church? Zechariah 14:7 is one of the scriptures Bishop Johnson referred to. One of his theme songs was "Water Way-Light in the Eveningtime" The other scripture is Isaiah 60:2-3 "For behold the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people but the Lord shall arise upon thee and his gory shall be seen upon thee and the Gentiles shall come to thy light and kings to the brightness of thy rising."

I have no problem with people who support Bishop Johnson. However, there are some things that I think should be looked at more closely before digesting everything he said as gospel. Looking forward to seeing the scriptures that you have to defend Bishop Johnson's teachings.

Martha: If you can find ONE THING he said in his doctrine that is not scriptural, you'll have done more than anyone else was ever able to do when he was alive. I have explained the dress code of the church when he was living. No, the scripture does not lay out long dresses, cotton stockings, etc, but the code was established after 1st Timothy 2:9-10/ That, he allowed the Sister Mary Green who was supervisor of the women to formulate. He did not mandate it as such; however, like I said before, he would not allow members to dress in pants, shorts, mini skirts, etc. Had he himself chosen the dress code, I don't know what he would have chosen but it couldn't have been any more severe that what Sis. Mary Green chose. But Bishop Johnson was a man of God. He condemned women's dress that did not portray modesty and godliness. And He was the Bishop and had the authority, just the same as Apostle Paul or Apostle Peter had the authority to oversee the dress code of the congretants, even though he did not lay it out himself. The dress code was severe by today's standards but Sis. Green chose it and he let it stand. Head covering was also mandated according to 1st Cor. 11. While this may sound harsh and "unscriptural" to many, where is the scripture that condemns it? But by not being in obedience to the authorities over you, you would be found disobedient and all disobedience is sin.

[martha]

Originally Posted by warrior

No one is challenging Johnson's integrity. We have to look at the teachings not him as an individual. I am in support of taking a closer look at the teachings because then you can explain to others why what was being taught is not correct.
I think more than anything, people's pride become hurt because they are so sure that they are in the right thing. That is what we all want to believe.

Martha: Tell me, if you please, what is the beliefs in your church? So I can evaluate your belief (smile).

[martha]

Originally Posted by warrior

Martha,
What about those who never hear Bishop Johnson? Will they still be saved if they aren't listening to HIM?

What about the people who were here during the period he called gross darkness? If the Bible apostles were dead and he hadn't arrived on the scene yet, did they not have the opportunity to receive salvation?

According to Bishop Johnson, Those who lived during the period of darkness and never heard the word and have lived to the best of their ability, according to the knowledge they had of God will be saved in the second resurrection and those who have not lived the best they could according to the knowledge they had of God, will be lost.