What will Liberal's/Baptist's do when

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Moves of God? Can you guys please explain to me what y'all mean by this? Honestly, I have never understood all this need for great feelings. Yes, I believe God can move on a service and it does happen at our church at times but trying to manufacture or yearn for something that is not needed isn't helpful. If God needs to get a hold of some folks that is fine but to try to force it so that we know that God is with us just sounds very weak in the faith.

Whoa! You mean that we walk by faith and not by sight? Do you mean I can have confidence that God is my God even when I'm in the pits of despair? Do you mean that the Eternal Creator of Heaven and Earth isn't dependant upon whether or not the majority of the church made it to Starbucks before service?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by revrandy

the Magic Hair Doctrine goes away????

What will their next Mantra Be?


Seems like "Magic Hair" is now the whipping post for all things considered standards?

What does liberals and baptists have to do with a false doctrine called "Magic Hair" by some?

Do you believe in this doctrine?

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

See I just don't get it. Sure I used to crave the same thing because I thought that was how God moved and if I didn't then something was wrong. I know, I know because if the power ain't there then you didn't have church.

Do you guys realize how this attitude puts pressure on people to conform and act a certain way so as to be spiritual? Does a powerful move of God have to be accompanied by extreme fits of emotion?

Wow.

Delta, if in your mind you equate "move of God" with "extreme fits of emotion", then I find that actually kind of sad.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by revrandy

No I'm just messing around a bit with those I can't distinguish from good Baptist folks anymore...

I agree with Hot Coffee Ms. it seems that this has become somewhat a crusade issue by men that seems to be killing UPC'ers while it's being preached... and I just don't think that is the case...

I'll readily admit I'm somewhat left of the right and right of the left...leaning more towards the right but it gets wearisome to hear the same mantra over and over and see some friends and family that have changed over the last few years...

I love being Apostolic and I also love the UPC and what it stands for... I don't necessarily agree with everything and believe some things should be updated but it is a body of believers... I don't agree with the Politics of the system but every system has it's own political structure because it is governed by man... but truth be told God is in charge.. while men are imperfect by nature they can also become vile, ugly, and do ungodly in deeds all claiming that they are godly but on the other hand humans can make mistakes and can find forgiveness even though others have been hurt by their relationship with said men... Paul was such a man who in the name of God persecuted those who were serving God... but he himself found forgiveness there may have been some who never forgave him for what he did...but God saw fit to preserve him probably to the detriment of those he had persecuted because of the bitterness or pain they had felt or received from him...

I can't apologize for the entire ministry to those that have been hurt, or have suffered pain because of the path they went down but to see the well worn path some are taking and seeing where it has led others who also claim godliness in ungodliness it is sad to see and hear...

I hope someday to see them make their way back home to truth or at least to where they once were in Christ...

I remember a Pm here a couple of years ago from a Pastor's wife who even though they were pastor of a large assembly and seemingly successful church she said she longed for the days again of Apostolic moves of the Holy Ghost in their services because they had moved on from those things awhile back...

I really see some here who are delving into areas where the danger signs are flashing... And what you may realize as truth and relevance as was stated by a friend mine recently you lose revelation and that is a bad place to be...

God is not in charge of the UPC. Men are. Men have to relinquish their will and this organization to God

BTW we never needed this LS RR teaching on hair in the past 100 years to have moves of God. Women were believing God through prayer and faith not the laying on of hair. Let's just get back to the bible, none of these "new angles" to "power before the throne" junk. Faith, Prayer, Fasting..His WORD

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

What does liberals and baptists have to do with a false doctrine called "Magic Hair" by some?

Do you believe in this doctrine?

If I understand him correctly....

I think he's saying that liberals/baptists are using the "magic hair" issue as an excuse to whip up on the UPCI, etc.

...And that after that issue dies down, they'll just look for something else -- because if it's not one thing, it's another.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Wow.

Delta, if in your mind you equate "move of God" with "extreme fits of emotion", then I find that actually kind of sad.

Why do you blatantly try to twist what I said? In no way did I indicate that I thought a powerful move of God had anything to do with extreme emotion. If fact, I was saying the exact opposite.

So, let me ask you. How do you measure a great Apostolic move of God?

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Moves of God? Can you guys please explain to me what y'all mean by this? Honestly, I have never understood all this need for great feelings. Yes, I believe God can move on a service and it does happen at our church at times but trying to manufacture or yearn for something that is not needed isn't helpful. If God needs to get a hold of some folks that is fine but to try to force it so that we know that God is with us just sounds very weak in the faith.

Your response is riddled with improper assumptions.

He said nothing about "manufacturing" anything. You're the one saying that.

Neither did he say anything about "forcing it".

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Why do you blatantly try to twist what I said? In no way did I indicate that I thought a powerful move of God had anything to do with extreme emotion. If fact, I was saying the exact opposite.

Well, lets deal with what you said.
You clearly associated the idea of a move of God (from Randy's comments), with "extreme fits of emotion". The inference seems fairly clear. Nobody's twisting your words.

If you're saying the exact opposite, then you sure didnt make that clear from your words.





And how can you determine that what they consider "a move of God" is not needed or helpful?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

If I understand him correctly....

I think he's saying that liberals/baptists are using the "magic hair" issue as an excuse to whip up on the UPCI, etc.

...And that after that issue dies down, they'll just look for something else -- because if it's not one thing, it's another.

But it's NOT just liberals that see this doctrine is a dangerous heretical teaching and needs to be stopped.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

If I understand him correctly....

I think he's saying that liberals/baptists are using the "magic hair" issue as an excuse to whip up on the UPCI, etc.

...And that after that issue dies down, they'll just look for something else -- because if it's not one thing, it's another.

Right, just like Martin Luther said nothing about justification by faith in his thesis that he nailed to the wall. But he decided to tackle another issue that had political power and could easily be seen as error.

That gets the debate going and then the hope is that the debate will begin to uncover and reveal more issues. The whole point is discussion and getting the thinking process started.

I will give an example. Before our church split no one really talked about standards or even cared. But before it was over everyone had picked a side and it resulted in action. People who never thought about hair cutting as relevant were finally taking a stand for what they knew was right. The three-steppers were forced to reveal their hand thus many people that put up with a doctrine because it wasn't discussed all of a sudden were forced to make a stand.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

But it's NOT just liberals that see this doctrine is a dangerous heretical teaching and needs to be stopped.

Yes, I understand.
I'm not a liberal, and I find the doctrine to be a bit weird, to say the least.


But conservatives and moderates are not the one using this as a whip against the UPC.
The ones who are are mostly liberals.
That's what his whole point seems to be --- that the UPC bashers are having a field day with this, and their motives may not be 100% pure.