He Was More than Just a Man

Nina · #1 03-12-2009, 06:02 PM

I need help in witnessing to someone who believes that she is a Christian, but also believes that Jesus is not God, just the Son of God. She, in fact, believes she has a 'special revelation' that requires this belief.

She teaches perfection.
That it can be attained only by the knowledge that Jesus was just a man anointed by God from birth, who was tempted and yet overcame without sinning.
If He were truly God, there is no hope for us to live without sin because we're NOT God.

In other words,

Can You be a Christian if You believe that Jesus was just a man filled with God's Spirit?

If not, why not?

She says she believes that Jesus is who He says he is in His Word,(Son of Man, etc) and we should judge her fruit to decide if she is redeemed.

She says that Jesus NEVER said "I AM GOD".

John 8:56 says:

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."

57 The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"

58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

Is this as close as Jesus comes to saying 'I am God'?

Praxeas · #2 03-12-2009, 06:36 PM

Jesus never said "I am God"? Yes that is true, but he did allude to it. Probably why is explained in Phil 2 where Paul argues he existed in the form of God...but humbled Himself.

It seems to me her argument is not really based on scriptures though but on her belief that she is or has to be perfectly sinless because Jesus was. And if Jesus was God, but not a man, then she can't be perfectly sinless...sounds like a circular argument.

Also, what if she does sin? What if she does commit a sin...just one...in say a 10 year period? Using her argument then that would mean her belief was wrong to begin with...using her argument. For her entire argument is built on the assumption that she can be and will be sinlessly perfect by believing Jesus was just a man, because he was just a man.

However, the other fallacy is that in saying Jesus is God she seems to think that means we deny he was a man. That is completely untrue.

Nina · #3 03-12-2009, 06:50 PM

Thanks for Your thoughts.

She says she must be sinless because Jesus told many to "Go and sin no more."

Nina

Scott Hutchinson · #4 03-12-2009, 07:46 PM

While a Christian doesn't practice a lifestyle of sin,if a believer does commit a sin,they can repent and obtain forgiveness.

Nina · #5 03-12-2009, 08:39 PM

Brother Scott,
Don't Apostolics teach that we can live without sin?
Nina

Scott Hutchinson · #6 03-12-2009, 08:50 PM

Sister we teach that one can live a Holy life, but if a believer does commit a sin,they can ask forgiveness,but if one is truly saved they don't practice a lifestyle of open sin.

Shawn · #7 03-12-2009, 09:35 PM

The Apostolic Church I went to years ago taught that all sins were to be confessed to the Pastorto receive forgiveness and stay in right standing. It was a heavy weight to bear and before long I fell out.......was always feeling condemed.

Raven · #8 03-12-2009, 09:39 PM

Luke 1:35
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 10:36
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God ?

Matt 16:16-17
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Let's just simply let the Scripture speak for itself. Jesus is without a doubt, the Son of God! Some seem to shy away from this truth. Others want to say, "Oh I know it says that but we really know he is ........" [Whatever it is they are trying to prove]
Jesus told Peter, that the revelation is that, he indeed is the Son of God!
I'm afraid we "oneness" believers are close to being like the Mormons and JW's with extra-Biblical "revelations" we conjured up somewhere. This post won't go over well with some but that's alright the Truth will "dawn" eventually on them. To glibly pass over the truth that there is a Father and there is a Son in the Word, is to miss the glorious truth that God wants to perform in us as sons of God. This is what this Grand Plan of God is all about.
Raven

Praxeas · #9 03-12-2009, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven

Luke 1:35
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 10:36
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God ?

Matt 16:16-17
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Let's just simply let the Scripture speak for itself. Jesus is without a doubt, the Son of God! Some seem to shy away from this truth. Others want to say, "Oh I know it says that but we really know he is ........" [Whatever it is they are trying to prove]
Jesus told Peter, that the revelation is that, he indeed is the Son of God!
I'm afraid we "oneness" believers are close to being like the Mormons and JW's with extra-Biblical "revelations" we conjured up somewhere. This post won't go over well with some but that's alright the Truth will "dawn" eventually on them. To glibly pass over the truth that there is a Father and there is a Son in the Word, is to miss the glorious truth that God wants to perform in us as sons of God. This is what this Grand Plan of God is all about.
Raven

Nice Strawman. Just because we admit to the scriptures that speak of His Deity does NOT mean we shy from the truth of those scriptures you posted. There is no extra biblical revelation either.

TJJJ · #10 03-13-2009, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven

Luke 1:35
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 10:36
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God ?

Matt 16:16-17
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Let's just simply let the Scripture speak for itself. Jesus is without a doubt, the Son of God! Some seem to shy away from this truth. Others want to say, "Oh I know it says that but we really know he is ........" [Whatever it is they are trying to prove]
Jesus told Peter, that the revelation is that, he indeed is the Son of God!
I'm afraid we "oneness" believers are close to being like the Mormons and JW's with extra-Biblical "revelations" we conjured up somewhere. This post won't go over well with some but that's alright the Truth will "dawn" eventually on them. To glibly pass over the truth that there is a Father and there is a Son in the Word, is to miss the glorious truth that God wants to perform in us as sons of God. This is what this Grand Plan of God is all about.
Raven

Raven,

This is a weak attempt to have, like the Mormons and JW's, a dual godhead. They believe just like you are explaining.

The son refers to the sonship, the humanity indwelled by the Spirit of God. How else could we, mere mortals, become, like Jesus, sons and children of God?

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

The son refers to the flesh that the spirit resided in. We are sons today because when we recieve the Holy Ghost the spirit now resides in our flesh.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Don't mistake the flesh for the diety.

TJJJ