Bait and Switch: Pentecostal Deception? - Page 4

EA · #31 03-16-2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Ed, How does the Bible define holiness? Is it a separation unto God from something? from sin? from the world? from the customs of the world?

Separation is, first and foremost, UNTO God.

We are separated, consecrated and/or set apart for Him.

It's like shopping. When we grocery shop, we choose items from the shelves, and place them in our cart with the full intent of purchasing them. The shopper, when choosing, sets the items apart for purchase. He pays the price for them. He purchases them for his own pleasure and purpose.

We are holy because He declares us holy. Because of the price He paid.
Not through works that we have done.

Secondly, we exhibit holiness through a consistent disdain for "worldliness." We separate ourselves FROM ungodly thoughts, actions and locales. We do so in order to maintain right relationship. The aim is to steer away from anything that threatens our relationship with God.

EA · #32 03-16-2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theophil

EA are you trying to make the point that "standards" (what are called holiness standards, but are not) are NOT and NEVER WILL BE salvational issues??

Not at all.

I am only saying that if a person believes all tradition lifestyle standards are salvational, he better be preaching it as plainly as Acts 2:38.

Don't hold anything back.

mizpeh · #33 03-16-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Secondly, we exhibit holiness through a consistent disdain for "worldliness." We separate ourselves from ungodly thoughts, actions and locales. We do so in order to maintain right relationship.

Customs are different all over the world. True holiness shouldn't be subject to the whims of a society's culture.

For instance, in the middle east, western clothing is not considered holy. How could we win someone to the Lord if we allowed to go there and witness to someone while at the same time offending them by the clothes we wear? What we think is modest and holy in our culture may not be in another culture. Is there a different holiness standard from culture to culture? How can it be true holiness if can vary?

jrpreacher · #34 03-16-2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theophil

EA are you trying to make the point that "standards" (what are called holiness standards, but are not) are NOT and NEVER WILL BE salvational issues??

AMEN

mizpeh · #35 03-16-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Not at all.

And please stop bringing the UPC into this.

I am only saying that if a person believes all tradition lifestyle standards are salvational, he better be preaching it as plainly as Acts 2:38.

Don't hold anything back.

This makes sense. The whole counsel of God should be taught.

Acts 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. 27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God

EA · #36 03-16-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Customs are different all over the world. True holiness shouldn't be subject to the whims of a society's culture.

For instance, in the middle east, western clothing is not considered holy. How could we win someone to the Lord if we allowed to go there and witness to someone while at the same time offending them by the clothes we wear? What we think is modest and holy in our culture may not be in another culture. Is there a different holiness standard from culture to culture? How can it be true holiness if can vary?

There's the rub.

Plus, I think two ladies could be wearing the exact same style of clothing, but with different spirits. In some cases, the clothing is not the issue, it's the attitude of the wearer. Otherwise, there are some objects that are definitely contrary to a spirit of holiness.

What do you think?

CC1 · #37 03-16-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

There's the rub.

Plus, I think two ladies could be wearing the exact same style of clothing, but with different spirits. In some cases, the clothing is not the issue, it's the attitude of the wearer. Otherwise, there are some objects that are definitely contrary to a spirit of holiness.

What do you think?

I think you have "gone charismatic". You will find no logic or rhyme or reason for the tradition of Pentecostal legalism in dress code. It is largely based on the traditions of a close religous culture and not clear mandates from the Bible. Once you start questioning them you are on that slippery slope. They cannot be looked at with human logic. They are "pretzel logic" and undestanding pretzel logic is obviously a God given special talent.

EA · #38 03-16-2009, 07:04 PM

For instance, a Playboy emblem represents a very ungodly system.

IMO, that is an ungodly object, and shouldn't be worn on clothing.

CC1 · #39 03-16-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

For instance, a Playboy emblem represents a very ungodly system.

IMO, that is an ungodly object, and shouldn't be worn on clothing.

I actually have a pair of socks with that emblem on them (didn't realize it when I bought them) but since my pants leg covers it up I wear them.

I can't believe you don't like rabbits!!!!

EA · #40 03-16-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1

I think you have "gone charismatic". You will find no logic or rhyme or reason for the tradition of Pentecostal legalism in dress code. It is largely based on the traditions of a close religous culture and not clear mandates from the Bible. Once you start questioning them you are on that slippery slope. They cannot be looked at with human logic. They are "pretzel logic" and undestanding pretzel logic is obviously a God given special talent.

Si Si Juan,

I live "the old-time way" for the most part.

I do so because I think boundaries are needed.

We go over the cliff, however, when we mandate our own personal boundaries on everybody in the natural born world.