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  #41  
Old 03-18-2009, 06:03 PM
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pelathais pelathais is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie View Post
7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Jesus is explicit with satan about who is God.
I believe that Jesus is God, however that passage you cite from Matthew 4:1-11 and Luke 4:1-13, isn't going to get us there.

Satan had tempted Jesus to throw Himself down, for it is written, "He shall give His angels charge over thee..." (Psalm 91:11-12). Satan was trying to get Jesus to tempt God with the rash act of throwing Himself off the pinnacle of the temple. Jesus quoted a portion of Deuteronomy 6:16, to dissuade the adversary and thus Jesus Himself overcame the sin of "tempting God."
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  #42  
Old 03-18-2009, 06:41 PM
Nina Nina is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
I believe that Jesus is God, however that passage you cite from Matthew 4:1-11 and Luke 4:1-13, isn't going to get us there.
After rereading this last night I came to the same conclusion.

Bro Pelathais,

Help this old lady out.

Nina
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  #43  
Old 03-18-2009, 06:57 PM
Nina Nina is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

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Originally Posted by tbpew View Post
Raven,
Thanks for reminding those who read your post, that if we let the scripture speak, it will speak of Jesus being the Son of God.
tbpew,
I respect You. You're one of the few posters I try to keep up with.

Are You saying that Jesus ISN"T God?

Thanks,
Nina
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  #44  
Old 03-18-2009, 07:36 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

Thomas said to Jesus "My Lord and My God", in greek is literally "The Lord of me and the God of me"

The Definite article makes theos "God" not "a god"

joh 20:28 Thomas replied to him, "My Lord and my God!"
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #45  
Old 03-18-2009, 08:28 PM
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tbpew tbpew is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

Nina,
thank you for the kind words.

I will attempt to speak using words that I hope are consistent enough with classical oneness speak to avoid being perceived as being purposefully "obtuse".

The exact question that will illuminate the aspects of my departure from most outspoken keepers of oneness, is "Is the Son God?" I do not believe that the Son of God is God.

I am one who understands (and teaches) that the witness of scripture reveals that God was IN Christ, NOT that God BECAME the Christ.

Christ is a word that applies to CREATION not creator.
Christ is a word that speaks of the object or recipient of the anointing NOT the anoint-er.
The deity of Christ is the anointing that establishes the vessel as the Christ.

FATHERS do not become their own Sons. To use words in this manner would require that we trash the entire common witness of our familiar language usage. God did not inspire word choices that contradict such a plain understanding of usage.

I believe that scripture plainly instructs that God begat (fathered, supplied the seed) that resulted in a life in the womb of Mary. God's own word became flesh when it found agreement with the ovum of Joseph's betrothed, the lineage of David.
Luke 1:35 provides this witness:
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Why is it so difficult for many oneness folks to believe that God SENT his only begotten Son into the world?
Answer: Because they teach and believe that God BECAME a man, rather than God has a Son in whom he [God] purposed to indwell; to make his own habitation without the hands of men involved. A last Adam, a true kinsman redeemer, must be a man of like persuasion as was the first Adam. The first Adam was not 'God becoming a man', the last Adam was not 'God becoming a man'. God is not a man, nor has God added to himself the form of a man.

God's word and the Sons of God are MANIFESTATIONS of God in the midst of creation. God indwelling his children renders God apparent (able to be preceived)within the created realm. The deity of Christ is the anointing.

If you see the vessel that God is indwelling, you have seen God.

When you see the son, in whom the father is indwelling, you have seen the father.

So, you ask me to answer the question, is Jesus God?

If his Son is where God makes his abode, then looking at Jesus, you were looking at the only visible part of an invisible God. You would be looking at the express image of an invisible God. When you have seen Jesus you have seen the father. So is Jesus God, YES!, NO!.....it depends on how you speak concerning the scene you are witnessing.
Yes, Jesus is God because the Father is with the Son (the Son is the tabernacle in which God purposes to dwell).
NO, because God did not become the tabernacle.

God did not become the tabernacle, nor did he become the arc of the testimony or the pillar of cloud. If God became a man, or added to himself the form of a man, then God is NOT invisible. If God became a man, God has flesh and bones.

God is a spirit.

The words going forth, and proceeding from, the Spirit, conceived a child in the woman. That which was born of the women is God's word made flesh, the Son of God.
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Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath [James 1:19]
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  #46  
Old 03-18-2009, 08:46 PM
Nina Nina is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

Bro TBPW,

WHEW!
This is compelling.
You've given me a lot to study.


This goes against everything I've ever believed.


What happens if I don't receive this teaching?

Nina
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  #47  
Old 03-18-2009, 09:23 PM
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tbpew tbpew is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nina View Post
Bro TBPW,

WHEW!
This is compelling.
You've given me a lot to study.


This goes against everything I've ever believed.


What happens if I don't receive this teaching?

Nina
I believe this topical consideration affects how we relate to our example, our brother, our saviour; as he overcame, we can overcome.

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

The topic invites us (as readers of the scriptural witness) to decide if our example is:
1. one who was BORN of God
or
2. God BECOMING a MAN.

If the Son of God is actually a "God BECAME a man" reality, he is not an example for you or for me since we are not the result of being God added to ourselves human form.

A few other sobering considerations are found in I John.
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

I choose life.
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Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath [James 1:19]
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  #48  
Old 03-18-2009, 10:28 PM
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Raven Raven is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbpew View Post
I believe this topical consideration affects how we relate to our example, our brother, our saviour; as he overcame, we can overcome.

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

The topic invites us (as readers of the scriptural witness) to decide if our example is:
1. one who was BORN of God
or
2. God BECOMING a MAN.

If the Son of God is actually a "God BECAME a man" reality, he is not an example for you or for me since we are not the result of being God added to ourselves human form.

A few other sobering considerations are found in I John.
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

I choose life.
Excellent thoughts tb and very well presented! It's encouraging to hear the witness of another who has received the Word that has been plainly given to us all.

Raven
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  #49  
Old 03-18-2009, 10:58 PM
Nina Nina is offline
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Posts: 457
Re: He Was More than Just a Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbpew View Post
I believe this topical consideration affects how we relate to our example, our brother, our saviour; as he overcame, we can overcome.

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

The topic invites us (as readers of the scriptural witness) to decide if our example is:
1. one who was BORN of God
or
2. God BECOMING a MAN.

If the Son of God is actually a "God BECAME a man" reality, he is not an example for you or for me since we are not the result of being God added to ourselves human form.

A few other sobering considerations are found in I John.
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

I choose life.
Do You teach sinless perfection as well?

Who taught You this doctrine?

Thanks again,
Nina
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  #50  
Old 03-18-2009, 11:00 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: He Was More than Just a Man

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nina View Post
Even though most pastors don't teach this, does that absolve saints from striving to live without sinning?

Do You believe that, taught or not, saints desire this standard?

Don't we all know that we shouldn't sin?

Nina
Pastors words are not equal to Jesus unless they are the same words. Saints do desire to be perfect and complete in the will of God. Yet they are handicapped when they hear the many times Preachers tell them they cant be perfect.

Yes we know we should not. What we dont consider enough is that a sin that is not repented of can cause your name to be blotted out of the book of life.

And consider this. Probably a good number of Saints do not have sin in their life as we speak.

Are they not then perfect as far as the Lord is concerned? Why are people so against this?
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